[Lindrobe]

Hello all. I finished up the exams and I am looking for a new position. I have always regretted not working in public accounting, so I started applying to jobs at some of the smaller firms in my area for a couple of different reasons (flexibility, less hours in busy season, more diverse work experience). I interviewed with a very small CPA firm (1 partner, 2 other accountants) last week and decided it wasn’t the right fit for me. One of the things that bothered me is that there was very little in the way of benefits. I am coming from a position that offers low pay but great benefits. The small firm offered no health insurance, but they did offer to increase my salary to compensate. Also, no retirement. Is this typical of small firms?

FAR 12/3/14, 87
AUD 2/3/14, 90
BEC 4/1/14, 88
REG 5/27/14, 94

Licensed CPA, Indiana

"Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

[fiona87]

I worked at a small firm (8 people during busy season, 5 during the off-season) and we had health insurance and retirement plan, the whole shebang. I've been interviewing with small firms again, and all of them have at least offered health insurance and a 401(k) or other type of retirement program.

FAR - 79 (11/27/13)
AUD - 76 (2/1/14)
REG - 77 (5/30/14)
BEC - 88 (7/18/14)

MN Ethics - 100% (3/9/14)

AND DONE! 8/1/14

[Anonymous]

I work at a small CPA firm (2 partners, 3 accountants, 1 admin) and I have 100% employer-paid health insurance and a SIMPLE IRA through my employer with a match on up to 3% of my contributions. My employer has also paid for all of my CPA exam review materials, my application and exam fees, and my membership dues for the AICPA and VSCPA. Once I've finished up with the CPA exam, I'll be receiving reimbursement for my future CPEs including reasonable travel expenses.

From what I've seen in this area of central VA, at least some kind of health insurance coverage and retirement are pretty much standard at nearly all of the small CPA firms. The continuing ed expense coverage, including CPA exam fees and prep, is also something I've seen in quite a few firms that are invested in advancing their current staff. I know my salary probably isn't quite on par with my degree and experience, but I'm really very happy with where I work and I know I can work my way up as far as I want to. I also think there's something to be said for being able to get such a wide range of experience at a smaller firm- in just a little over 4 years I've gotten experience in compilations, reviews, audits, payroll, tax planning and preparation for many different types of entities, CFO services, and lots of other little projects that I likely wouldn't have seen elsewhere.

That being said, I would probably be leery of an employer who didn't at least offer the basics of health insurance and retirement, regardless of the salary offering. And while I absolutely agree that you'll get a more diverse work experience and likely more flexibility at a smaller CPA firm, I would make sure to check beforehand what the hours are like during busy season. My firm is small enough and has enough clients that everyone has to put in 80+ hours per week most weeks between January and April and then again from September to October every year. That's something I knew going into my position, so it wasn't a deal breaker for me, but if I were in your shoes I'd definitely check going into a new position to see what a firm's busy season entails. I do get nice semi-annual bonuses at the ends of those months, though! 🙂

[Lindrobe]

Wow, Amandilee! 100% employer paid health insurance is great! I know that the busy season hours do seem to vary at small firms. I don't mind working extra hours, but probably not interested in working 80 hours per week in busy season.

FAR 12/3/14, 87
AUD 2/3/14, 90
BEC 4/1/14, 88
REG 5/27/14, 94

Licensed CPA, Indiana

"Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

[Pandarama]

I work for a small firm (9 people during busy season, two of them being office staff).

The work-life balance is great but the benefits suck. The only thing he offers is health insurance for the employee only. If you have a spouse, they're out of luck. He pays the full premium rather than a portion or percentage. But then again, he doesn't offer dental. Next month I'll be dropped off of my parent's insurance (turning 26). So I'm praying that he'll be offering my benefits when the time comes. The benefits and perks are what I actually miss from my previous employer (large bank).

Although my firm doesn't have many benefits, I know there are multiple firms in my area that are roughly the same size where they offer more realistic benefits. So I would suggest taking a further look into the small firms by you. Most the small firms near me actually list the benefits they offer right on their website.

Good luck!

BEC - 80
AUD - 64, 75 - credit lost, 90!!
REG - 73, 74, 83
FAR - 61, 72, 85

Feels good finishing on my best note. Time to watch the mailbox.

[Anonymous]

I'm at a small firm. Two CPAs and seven staff and we have 100% employer paid health insurance with dental, paid vacations and holidays, and 2% contribution matching. They really spoil us. That being said, I have heard of others in the area who really don't get anything.

[John Tucker]

Maybe I come to this with a different perspective, but why can't you guys use your College Alumni Association group and setup your own benefits outside of your employment?

I find it very risky to have my health insurance, dental/vision insurance and term life insurance tied to ANY Employer because the moment you and that Employer part ways then your benefits are gone. Imagine being sick and being fired, there goes your health insurance. Which also means there goes your life insurance, so if you have an illness that might literally be “killing you” there goes the legacy (insurance death benefit payments) to your family.

Plus, whether you realize it or not, there's no FREE lunch. You are PAYING for the benefits you are receiving through lower compensation anyway. So why not take the risk out of having your insurance tied to an Employer, have your Employer pay you a higher compensation, and work with your College Alumni Association to get group purchase discounts and pay for your own benefits?

Plus any education being paid for isn't going to be “free” either, that also would come out of what they could be paying you in compensation and also it requires you to STAY with the company for a minimal period of time which could end up having you miss out on better market opportunities during that time period.

To add, the 401k programs are great due to the match which provides almost “free money” but you also don't have any control over how the investments are being done in most cases. Why not seek to take control over your retirement planning to avoid potential losses?

* State of MA CPA Exam Candidate
- BEC: Sunday, August 24th
- FAR: Saturday, November 29th
- AUD: TBA for February 2015
- REG: TBA for May 2015

[Lindrobe]

John Tucker, I definitely realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I appreciate your perspective and had not thought about getting insurance through my alumni association before. So, I looked into it and cannot believe how expensive it would be. I have a spouse and no children and for a plan with a $2,000 deductible it is over $600 per month! I currently pay $195/month and have a $700 deductible. For a plan that is comparable to what I have now, I would pay over $800/month. Wow!

The organization I work for currently pays 10% of my salary into a 403b plan with Fidelity. I am more than happy with the investment options. I currently have about 200 investment options to choose from.

If the benefits were the only thing that I didn't like about this firm, I could have dealt with it. But overall, it just wasn't what I was looking for.

FAR 12/3/14, 87
AUD 2/3/14, 90
BEC 4/1/14, 88
REG 5/27/14, 94

Licensed CPA, Indiana

"Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

[John Tucker]

Oh I would shop that around. Are you fairly young with no major illnesses? It's just you and your spouse? Yeah $600 a month premium with a $2k deductible is pretty high, but you want to get creative with this to determine where you are in life and how much healthcare you might actually “need” right now.

I'll break my Health insurance plan down for you. I'm 30, no kids, no wife, no major illnesses, don't drink or smoke, exercise regularly and eat pretty healthy. I use United Healthcare and the plan was $100 a month until Obamacare got it increased to $120 last year and now to $140 this year. The basics of it is this:

– Ties to my HSA, I do the max HSA contribution each year for the tax deduction

– Free routine doctor exams, etc. each year

– In network doctor visits to see my doctor for temporary sick situations are cheap, mostly about $50 – $80 to see him.

– Prescriptions are no more than $5 – $10 from Walgreens or CVS, etc.

– The plan's deductible is $5,000 but it has a Shrinking Deductible tied to it. This means if I don't meet the calendar year's deductible then it will go down by $1,000 the first year, then $2,000 the second year, and then $2,500 the third year. So in a nutshell, if I don't meet the deductible three years in a row it goes down to $2,500 which means if I need some sort of serious surgery I would just wait until the deductible came down to $2,500.

– In addition, I also have a Supplemental Accident Rider on the policy. So this is where if I'm involved in any accidental injury such as a slip and fall, a guy beats me up at the bar, or anything that would be considered an “accident,” then my Health Insurance would cover the costs of the healthcare without requiring the payment of the deductible.

So for my age, this policy works great for me because I'm less likely to get into any major sicknesses that would require the policy to be activated, but if I do the shrinking deductible gets the deductible down to a reasonable cost. For my age and lifestyle, I'm more likely to get into some sort of “accidental injury” from fighting, working out, injuring myself, etc. so the policy covers that in full while again also covering any catastrophic situations if needed.

You guys should check out United Healthcare, I like them 🙂

* State of MA CPA Exam Candidate
- BEC: Sunday, August 24th
- FAR: Saturday, November 29th
- AUD: TBA for February 2015
- REG: TBA for May 2015

[fiona87]

Generally I'm all over your post, JohnTucker, but “if I need some sort of serious surgery I would just wait until the deductible came down to $2,500”?? That's not really practical – if the surgery is serious (burst appendix, for example), waiting three years until you can afford the deductible isn't really practical. A $5,000 bill to cover that deductible would put a lot people in some serious financial trouble.

FAR - 79 (11/27/13)
AUD - 76 (2/1/14)
REG - 77 (5/30/14)
BEC - 88 (7/18/14)

MN Ethics - 100% (3/9/14)

AND DONE! 8/1/14

[Lindrobe]

I am 32 (husband is 34). We are both non smokers, work out regularly, and have no major illnesses.

For me, a $5,000 deductible is just a mental thing that would be hard to get over. Having to pay $5,000 for a surgery would in no way come even close to putting me in financial trouble.

Anyhow, just curious to what I will run into with the benefits offered by small CPA firms. Seems to be pretty much a mixed bag.

FAR 12/3/14, 87
AUD 2/3/14, 90
BEC 4/1/14, 88
REG 5/27/14, 94

Licensed CPA, Indiana

"Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

[Anonymous]

@John Tucker I love the sound of your health insurance plan! Through my employer, I pay a little over $100/mo for my insurance, $3k deductible, and no Supplemental Accident-stuff. I'm also at a stage where an accident is the most likely cause of my needing medical attention, so I'd far rather have a plan like yours which covers those with no deductible (even though it has a higher deductible for regular stuff), even without the shrinking deductible! Ironic thing is that mine is also through United Healthcare through my employer…but (in my mind) I get less and I'm sure the total bill is more (counting employer side)!

To chime on Lindrobe's question… I worked in a super super small accounting firm (owner, myself, and part-time student half the year) and there were no benefits at all. Owner got his benefits through his wife's job, and didn't feel the need to foot the bill for the rest of us to have benefits. 😛 I'd be willing to consider a job with no benefits as long as the pay compensated for them (when I had the small CPA job, Obamacare wasn't in effect yet, so I was OK without benefits), since I see the benefits as a part of my compensation so without them the compensation would have to increase an equivalent amount. If I made $50k and my employer would match up to a 10% contribution in a 401k, then I could consider that like I made $55k when comparing to other offers…same idea with health insurance etc., but those things are harder to pin down!

[Pandarama]

“Imagine being sick and being fired, there goes your health insurance.” – Johntucker

That's why cobra benefits exist (disregard the fact that you'll be paying way more than before to keep the insurance).

BEC - 80
AUD - 64, 75 - credit lost, 90!!
REG - 73, 74, 83
FAR - 61, 72, 85

Feels good finishing on my best note. Time to watch the mailbox.

[Amay]

I work for a small CPA firm now and had to give up better benefits such as full health and 401k. My firm pays for half my health insurance premium (I was used to paying almost nothing). I have to pay for my own vision and dental as well. I have an IRA (rolled over from my previous employer) that I should probably start contributing to because my firm does not have a retirement plan, but they do offer a life insurance plan. The higher compensation and much better flexibility made up for the lack of better benefits though, so I am happy.

BEC: 73, 81
AUD: 85
FAR: 71, 77
REG: 74, 75...finally DONE! 😀

*This is my 2nd attempt at the CPA exam. For all of you who have failed this exam many times, given up on it, or taken a break like me, remember that it is still possible to finish what you started...failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently 🙂

[MintsRGood]

I'm at a small firm and I love it! Our firm covers 100% of health, vision, dental, and ST/LT disability insurance, offers 401k and match, 4 weeks PTO and paid holidays, well compensated, and are treated well day to day. We believe that as a small firm it's important to have good benefits and a quality working environment to attract good employees and keep turn over low! Some small firms think differently thought…you just have to feel it out as best you can in the interview process.

The other benefit to working at a smaller firm is the depth of experience once you make senior level. I work directly with the owner and get to participate in the consulting side, deal with high level clients and their complex accounts, and I also oversee the staff accountants and the admin pool. (I used to work in the admin pool underneath the office manager, so I'm the only person on staff who can prepare, review, assemble, and use the billing software to invoice their returns, ha!) If I worked at a much larger firm, I know for a fact that I wouldn't be doing 1/4 of the things I do on a daily basis here. If you are looking however to do lots of travel and enjoy the corporate culture of Big4 life, then a small firm may not be the best fit.

REG: 75 DONE 🙂
AUD: 61, 71, 68, 92 DONE 🙂
BEC: 76 DONE 🙂
FAR: 72, 74, 79 DONE 🙂
Licensed Michigan CPA 🙂
-Some people dream of success...others wake up and work hard for it!!!
-The cowards never start and the weak die along the way!
-You better work, b***h!
-Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.-JFK

[Lindrobe]

Is your firm hiring, Mints? Ha ha. Your firm sounds great!

FAR 12/3/14, 87
AUD 2/3/14, 90
BEC 4/1/14, 88
REG 5/27/14, 94

Licensed CPA, Indiana

"Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

[Author]

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