[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I am a new graduate and I really need some help making a decision between the following 2 job offers (difference in starting salaries negligible):

1) a role in the tax line of one of the Big 4 accounting firms

2) a graduate government rotational program – duties can include things like controllership, financial planning, forecasting, etc.

For several reasons, I’m hesitant about the Big 4 offer. For one, my tax prof hated it so much that he went back to school for 6 years to get an accounting PhD and friends of friends of mine working at the Big 4 also admit that they don’t like it. The main factors that are leading me away from this option are the long working hours and also potentially being pigeon holed in tax if I find I don’t like it. I mean, is being a tax director in industry even an enjoyable/less stressful job than public accounting tax? And are the hours in smaller public accounting firms that much better, relatively speaking? In addition, I have no interest in ever becoming a partner of a firm, much less the Big 4. Personality-wise, while I’ve been a top student throughout all of my undergrad, I am very much an introvert and tend to get very stressed and flustered when working in competitive environments or when working on extremely difficult and technical problems and I feel like this will further hamper my possibilities of success at a Big 4. I also always saw the prospect of jumping ship to government after receiving my CPA in a positive light.

The 2nd option appeals to me more for several reasons: almost-equal salary, standard 40 hour work week all year long, variety of work, friendly atmosphere, lots of learning opportunities and much support is offered to you in terms of finding extended employment either during or after the 2 years. In addition, this position will give me the required experience to obtain my CPA designation. However, while the salary is definitely very competitive in the short run (I’ll probably be making around $65k after 2 years) I am afraid of being stuck at that point for many years without a chance for promotion or salary increase. Having completed internships at the IRS, I can also attest to the fact that the typical stereotypes of lazy government workers is in fact a reality for some cases (although the employees I saw that fit the bill were clearly the underachieving/low-ambition types). While I have no interest in making an extremely lucrative salary, it’s hard for me to gauge at this point whether making probably $70-$75k at age 30 will be sufficient due to living costs and possibly having a family.

I guess my question is this: do the supposed post-Big 4 benefits from having the Big 4 on your resume make hating your life/job (I’m assuming this will be likely) for at least 3-5 years worth it? Or am I better off pursuing the government role now and reaping the rewards of a decent salary, great pension and work-life balance although probably making less money?

Thank you for any advice.

[Anonymous]

Go for the government position. You'll get regular raises, and if you get more education, you can get even more raises.

Promotions are very possible, many older workers are retiring from the government, opening up more jobs for others.

[Smarty_Pants]

Hi! Please see my comments to your comments.

“…my tax prof hated it so much that he went back to school for 6 years to get an accounting PhD and friends of friends of mine working at the Big 4 also admit that they don't like it.”—-Why not try it and see for yourself? If not Big 4, maybe a smaller regional firm? Other people's perspectives can be dangerous because after all, you are your own unique self and may see it another way. Who knows how your professor or friends are at work (when they are not around you). They could be the problem NOT the firm.

“The main factors that are leading me away from this option are the long working hours and also potentially being pigeon holed in tax if I find I don't like it. “—You maybe on to something BUT didn't you say that you interned for the IRS? Did you get some perspective from that experience?

“I am very much an introvert and tend to get very stressed and flustered when working in competitive environments or when working on extremely difficult and technical problems and I feel like this will further hamper my possibilities of success at a Big 4.

---

I think now that you are a young professional, you should start working VERY HARD to GET OVER this! You won't be successful anywhere if you don't learn how to keep your composure, not even the “safe” government job. And can you explain what does ” tend to get very stressed and flustered when working in competitive environments or when working on extremely difficult and technical problems” have to do with being an introvert?

“While I have no interest in making an extremely lucrative salary…” —I understand that one shouldn't LOVE money but to limit your income earning potential this early…I wouldn't encourage this thinking. Afterall, you're not going to say to any prospective employer “No Thank You for the huge salary…I have no interest in making an extremely lucrative salary..just pay me what you can!!!”

“… it's hard for me to gauge at this point whether making probably $70-$75k at age 30 will be sufficient due to living costs and possibly having a family.”—YOU ARE CORRECT!!! IT WILL NOT BE ENOUGH!!!! I make very close to six figures with only one child and I still don't feel like I make enough!!!

“I guess my question is this: do the supposed post-Big 4 benefits from having the Big 4 on your resume make hating your life/job (I'm assuming this will be likely) for at least 3-5 years worth it?”—YES IT'S WORTH IT! But I agree that you should do your research and find the best fit for you. If you casually look at F500 jobs, they are asking for public accounting and/or other F500 experience. Some even specifically prefer Big 4 experience.

“Or am I better off pursuing the government role now and reaping the rewards of a decent salary, great pension and work-life balance although probably making less money?”—-What governmental agency are you considering…state, federal? Well, I can't speak to any other agency but the one I belong to…the IRS (and I didn't get offending by your comment because there will be lazy people everywhere). And although the IRS LB&I experience has been an AWESOME one, it's time for me to go. The benefits are great, the pay is on par and it has to be the most flexible gig in this country BUT you pay for that. There is very little room for growth, at some point the raises do stop (when you reach the end of the GS scale), the potential leaderships opportunities are slim to none (unless you've been here 20+ years…then you can apply to a management trainee program), it's very unclear how to obtain the experiences you need to be considered “qualified” for anything above a GS-13 and much more. And to be honest, the pension is not that great. Suppose I stay at my current $100K until I retire, I'd only get $2,500 a month from mention.

Now, as you've stated…you don't (and maybe won't) have any ambition to want to lead or be in a position to have major impact within an organization. If that's true…go to the government. But how do you know?…how are you going to feel in 10 years or what you'll want from your career in 15 years? Better safe than sorry. You don't want years to go by and all of a sudden you get bitten my the leadership bug…

[jaredo155]

I would agree and disagree with some of the points made by other posters, and I won't try to sway you either way, but I do have a couple pieces of insight I have gained that might be helpful. From your post I think I have a similar personality to yourself, in that I was always at the very top of my class academically, but I am very introverted and don't particularly enjoy the pressure of being asked to lead, but would rather be the subject matter expert the leader leans on.

I also always thought government work (at the federal level) was something that could be a good landing spot, but unfortunately I lived in a city where there aren't hardly any accounting related federal government jobs. So that would be my first point, working for the federal government will limit what areas you can live in down the road much more than working for an accounting firm (big 4 or otherwise) will. It might seem unimportant right now when you are young and have no commitments tying you down, but at some point that may be important.

Another point I would make is that government jobs aren't all created equal, and neither are public accounting jobs. If you work for the IRS for instance, then there will be tremendous opportunity for you to exit to large public accounting firms or to industry for considerable money if you ever chose that route. Thus you would get the stability and work/life balance you want, with the option for higher earnings later in your career if you so chose (and it isn't like the federal government jobs don't pay well). On the other hand I know people in certain big 4 offices who are miserable, and others who love their job and the work/life balance isn't much worse than mine in corporate. The point being every office/agency is going to have its own culture, so I would make sure you don't generalize too much in that regard when weighing the differences between the two.

Most high level federal jobs (which it is my understanding from posts on here by people who work there) actually pay pretty close to as much as Senior Manager's or Partner's at the big 4, and are much more attainable than Partner at a big 4. Which brings me to your question about standard of living, and honestly that is such a subjective question it is hard to answer. There are many questions you will have to ask yourself, such as: Are you going to be living in a market like DC, NY, or San Francisco, or are you going to be living in one like St. Louis, Columbus, or Atlanta? Do you like having a high end lifestyle, or are you ok with having a normal middle class lifestyle? Do you want to have a spouse who is also a professional, or do you want to make enough so they can stay home? Do you have a bunch of student loans, or other forms of debt? All these are considerations that will determine how much money you need to make to have a fulfilling life. For instance I have a close friend who makes $55K and has two kids and his wife stays home, and they live a pretty normal middle class lifestyle in a major metro area (population over 1 million) in the Midwest. On the other hand my wife and I both work with each of us making a little more than that, we have one child, and we are able to live an upper middle class lifestyle. However if you want an upper middle class lifestyle, in a high cost of living market, where your spouse can stay at home, then yeah you probably need to be making at least six figures (but again both federal government jobs and public accounting offer salaries in this range).

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