CPA with poor accounting skills?!?

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  • #199622
    mdlongo
    Member

    I graduated with a Masters in Tax about 5 years ago. During those 5 years, I’ve been with 3 large and mid tier public accounting firms on the TAX side, working with all sizes of businesses and individuals. I’m currently a Senior Tax Associate.

    My latest performance review indicated that I lack certain basic accounting skills.  I know I’ve struggled with some tax returns when equity doesn’t roll and I must examine the prior period to determine what the client changed. Sometimes, I could not determine the issue from the prior period (i.e. in QuickBooks), yet my manager could always find the problem.

    After 5 years, I’ve become tired of public accounting and tax in particular. I want to move into industry and work on the financial side (monthly closings, etc). Before becoming an accountant, I worked in real estate, pharma, and biotech, and those sectors still interest me.

    So, I have a Bachelors in Industrial Engineering, a Masters in Tax (and accounting), and a CPA, but my basic accounting skills are suspect. The only NON-TAX classes I’ve taken are:

    1) Financial Accounting (at community college)

    2) Managerial Accounting (at community college)

    3) Intermediate Accounting (at university)

    4) AIS (at university)

    5) Cost Accounting (at university)

    All other classes were tax classes.

    Clearly I’m capable of learning, but my performance in public accounting so far is unimpressive. What is the best way to improve my basic accounting skills so I can transition into a corporate accounting role successfully?

    Take basic undergrad financial accounting class (like 201) at university?

    Take intermediate accounting again at university?

    Study my financial Becker CPA book?

    Study my Intermediate accounting book?

    Study tutorials on the internet? (Where)?

    Get a tutor?

    I’m just not sure how to spend my time to improve.

    Thanks for your experience and insights.

Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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  • #755298
    Biff-1955-Tannen
    Participant

    Since you obviously have an aptitude for learning, I would think you would be perfectly able to read through intermediate 1 and 2 books on your own to gain the accounting knowledge necessary. I don't think any of the concepts are tough enough that you would need to take a class for.

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    #755299
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I'd agree with Biff. Initially, you can probably gain from reading a textbook (and substituting with online resources like YouTube and Khan Academy) everything you would from basic courses like Intermediate Accounting I and II. More advanced/specialized courses – Advanced Accounting, Fraud Accounting, Government Accounting, etc. – not everyone takes, so I wouldn't consider necessary (usually they're like “pick 3 from this list of 6”, so not everyone has the same 3). So, I'd start with reviewing a Intermediate Accounting textbook, work through problems, try to understand, etc. If you really struggle with the concepts, maybe consider a private tutor to help out with understanding it, but I'd guess with a decent textbook and some online resources you wouldn't need the tutor. For a “decent textbook”, I'd look for one used in online courses that aren't heavily instructor-reliant. I took my accounting courses through LSU; basically, instructors grade papers, and students learn from the book. I don't remember what Intermediate Accounting book I used, but the prior edition of the book they use now is available on Amazon for $4.20: https://www.amazon.com/Intermediate-Accounting-Donald-E-Kieso/dp/0470587237/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453334556&sr=8-2&keywords=intermediate+accounting+donald+e.+kieso+jerry+j.+weygandt+terry+d.+warfield Given that LSU has picked these authors to use for their students to “self-teach” through the course, I'd guess the book is more readable than some textbooks.

    Beyond that, what you need would depend on what exactly it actually is that you're lacking…

    Do you lack a basic understanding of the conceptual framework of how accounting works? If so, that's not something that anyone could “diagnose” over a message board, and not something that most professor would put in the time or care to learn. An invested boss might help with that; a good-quality tutor who had real-world experience (not just academic qualifications) could help; but really an old-fashioned mentor is what you'd need…but finding one is hard!

    However, more likely, what you lack is simply real-world experience dealing with real-world accounting. I've studied accounting in academics, and I've worked in taxes (granted just for a year), and neither of those really allowed me to understand accounting like working in financial accounting did. Once you see it in real practice, it all starts to make sense. So, if you want to really grasp it, you might just need to work in it. You're not going to be able to step into a Controller role or something like that, cause you still need to get a more solid grasp on concepts yourself before you're steering the ship; however, with tax experience, you wouldn't be stepping into a Controller role, anyway. But if you want to move to private accounting and move to, say, a Staff Accountant, or even a Senior Accountant, go for it! I think most of what you're lacking you can learn on the job.

    Unless, like I said in the prior paragraph, you're just lacking something super fundamental. Chances of that aren't too good, but from where I stand, I can't say for sure you're not. If you had someone you could look to as a mentor that could help you honestly assess where you're at, that would be awesome, but finding such a person is often difficult. I'd love to have a mentor, personally, but have never found a way to obtain one. On the flip side, I'd love to mentor someone (when I'm a bit older and wiser and have something to offer 😀 ) but have no clue how to “offer” my services. So, presuming you don't have someone in real life who is in accounting that you can go to for an honest (aka not trying to avoid giving you a raise 😉 ) assessment of your skills, I'd suggest reviewing Intermediate, maybe doing similar with another textbook or two, then trying out a job in financial to see how it fits.

    If you're hesitant to make a career jump without getting your feet wet first, see if there's a non-profit you could volunteer with to get your hands in the work without having to move all the way. If you're religious, your church might welcome you as a bookkeeper; for non-religious people, any charity that you're involved with would be a good spot to start, and if you're not involved in any, then you may still be able to put out feelers to potentially get involved. I work at a non-profit college and had someone offer to volunteer in our accounting department the other day, and was thrilled! Still working on logistics, but accountants like cheap, and like free even better…free labor sounds awesome. 😉 haha. Jk…sorta.

    #755300
    Jdn9201
    Participant

    If you have your MST and CPA, you clearly have the book smarts to do well in accounting. Unless you identify a specific concept that's tripping you up, I don't think taking additional classes is going to help. Related work experience is what you need. Also, don't take your performance review too seriously. You probably have a pretty good understanding of accounting, but you may have not had proper training or you may have a bad manager. You mentioned that you've changed firms 3 times in 5 years – that could play a role too. Even if you know what you are doing, it takes time to get used to a different firm's systems and ways of doing things.

    I don't think additional education is going to help you much because working is way different than learning it from a book. I've been in industry my entire career (corporate tax) and my internship was as a book keeper at a motorcycle dealership. Although it didn't sound exciting, it was a great first job for me because I got to get my hands in every point of the accounting cycle. Even when I started in tax, it took me a while to understand things that come 2nd nature to me now, like tying out CY balances to PY, rolling RE, etc. Besides knowing the rules, there's a certain point while working where the light bulb turns on and you develop an instinct for recognizing when something is wrong, and you only get that by working.

    Good luck! I think you are better off by finding volunteer work and/or subtly transitioning your job from a tax function to a financial accounting function than taking classes, etc.

    BEC - 88 8/29/15
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    #755301
    leglock
    Participant

    I would analyze the source of the problems your manager found and how he went about finding and resolving them. This will provide you great insight as to your deficiencies. The fact you are not seeing something your manager sees obviously suggests you are missing something. Could just be the basics you have forgotten. Could be their internal systems are not intuitive and your manager is much more experienced with them than you. Each would dictate a different response on your part. With your academic pedigree, there's no doubt this is something that you can easily overcome.

    #755302
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Volunteer as a treasurer for a local non profit and practice doing actual month end closings on their books. Small organizations would really appreciate a volunteer bookkeeper. You might meet some good people and the work is rewarding too. I have been preparing the books for a little charity in my town, and doing the annual compilation and preparing the 990 for them for a few years.
    I think the accounting is 80% of the work , the taxes are the easier and less time consuming part of many of our clients. You should definitely try to work on more clients books, do more compilations and reviews.

    #755303
    monikernc
    Participant

    Aren't cpe's available at all levels of skills? Work with your manager to identify some classes that will improve your skills and show him/her you are willing to do what it takes to improve.

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    Ninja book and MCQs and the forum, all first try! 2016
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    #755304
    GorJess
    Member

    When it comes to getting a corporate accounting role, most of the time it's not about what you know but who you know or who knows you.

    If you do not want to spend extra money on classes or books, start networking with people in the industry of your interest.

    Began my CPA journey in 2012 using Gleim and mistakenly paid to take all 4 parts within 6 months:
    AUD - 51, 47 (did not study properly)
    REG - 39 (did not study at all, just took it on a whim)
    Did not sit for FAR or BEC
    I gave up in 2013... 🙁

    Resumed my CPA journey in 2016 using Gleim again with the following plan:
    FAR - study Feb thru Jun, take exam 6/5/16
    AUD - study Jun thru Aug, take exam 8/28/16
    REG - study Sep thru Dec, take exam 12/4/16
    BEC - study Dec thru Feb, take exam 2/26/17

    #755305
    Tncincy
    Participant

    Accounting for Dummies is a great reference book. (keep it in the drawer) The boss gave you an evaluation, so it should say where you are having trouble. If not, you and your boss need to talk. (talk before you quit), You cannot improve on what you don't know is wrong or expected of you.

    It begins with a 75
    Been here too long as a cheerleader.....time to pass

    It begins with a 75
    Been here too long as a cheerleader....ready to pass

    #755306
    confusedcandidate
    Participant

    “I know I've struggled with some tax returns when equity doesn't roll and I must examine the prior period to determine what the client changed.”

    Here's how to think about it to make it easy to wrap your head around what you are doing: we know that A = L + E right? If you have A, and you have L, any 12 year old who's taken pre algebra can solve for E. That's all you're doing.

    All you have to do is adjust A and E to where they should be, and plug the difference in equity.

    I used to struggle with that until I started thinking about it differently. Usually equity doesn't roll because the client didn't make your adjusting entries, or because they are idiots and entered transactions in a prior period after closing the books. I guess they could have made a prior period adjustment, but my clients aren't really sophisticated enough to know/care about that sort of thing.

    Either way, if you know what everything should be on a certain date, just take the last known accurate balance sheet on that date. Make one column for the client's balance on that date, one column for the last known accurate balance on that date, and a third column for the difference. The difference is your adjusting entry to reconcile equity.

    Weekends are meaningless to a CPA candidate

    #755307
    Missy
    Participant

    It sounds to me like you know the mechanics of accounting but lack the ability to tie it all together. Take a bookkeeping course at a community college. I know it sounds so basic but it really will help you see how all the concepts you've studied come together in practice.

    Old timer,  A71'er since 2010.

    Finance manager/HR manager

     

     

    Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
    Finance/Admin/HR Manager

    #755308
    Thrawn
    Participant

    It just takes practice, another option would be to try to get an internal audit job. I started my career in tax for 2 years, then did a year of internal audit and now work at a business unit (all within one large company). The tax skills teach you to think/attention to detail etc. auditing gives you a high-level overview of the company, controls, transactions and the balance sheet. this helped a lot before going into the business unit and doing financial and cost accounting.

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    #755309

    A lot of tax minded folks are terrible at foundation accounting. Dealing with my company's tax person now and it's excruciating. I for one am glad you are taking the extra steps, it will make you a MUCH stronger tax person. As for method, I've always been a fan of the classroom environment (community college level is all you need) for brushing up on or learning subject matter. It's more time consuming but it helps me keep focused. As I get older it gets a little weird having to do a study group with kids 15 years younger than me, but hey gotta be the old guy at some point may as well start now 🙂

    MBA,CMA,CPA, CFF?, ABV?

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