FREE ADVICE – Don't be a tax accountant

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  • #186848
    smith65
    Member

    If I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into tax accounting.

    I gathered my accounting undergraduate degree with the idea that I would be an accountant in public industry, either tax or audit. I decided I enjoyed the flexibility of tax accounting because you can work anywhere (ie, home) and auditors have to travel to places I wouldn’t ever voluntary go (ie, count wood in a warehouse in the middle of nowhere). I opted to get a MST, Master’s degree in taxation as my 5th year of higher education, required by my licensing state’s board of accountancy. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone after the MAAC, Master’s degree in Accounting.

    First and foremost, the biggest problem for tax accountants is the lack of industry/private job opportunities. There is a plethora of public accounting positions for tax, but that entails working like a mad man six months a year (six months if you’re lucky; my fellow former KPMG employee worked year round 80+ hour weeks). For every industry tax accounting position, there are easily ten internal auditing/cyclical financial accounting positions. That’s not an exaggeration or hyperbole. If you want to escape public accounting, cyclical accounting and auditing is the way to go. Most people who escape public accounting take their work/life balance very seriously and enjoy a significantly lower number of hours in the office once in industry; there is an understanding amongst all accountants who leave public accounting and enter private accounting that they will not work the insane hours they were once forced into. If you want one of the rare tax positions you will have to work for a large corporation who is actually substantial enough to bring a tax team in house, as opposed to shopping out the work to a public firm which gets the job done in a timely fashion and includes a certain amount of insurance if a tax return is found to be incorrect in case of audit. Where do all these large corporations exist? They exist in massive cities with high living expenses. You won’t find many tax accounting positions in cities with less than 500,000 in population. If your city doesn’t have a major sports team located there, likely you will not find a private tax position there (of course, there are exceptions). Accounting positions with high level financial needs exist in every town in America, but tax positions do not exist in small towns.

    Oh, and if you do stumble upon a private tax position in your town it will likely require one of two skill sets. The first is ASC 740 Accounting for Income Tax skillset and the other is State and Local tax skill set. Why is that important you ask? If you work at a smaller firm that is NOT the big 4, you will likely not have a chance to practice corporate provision (ASC 740) work nor will you likely be able to consistently be able to practice consolidated state and local tax work which involves complex nexus issues. The vast majority of this work is farmed out to public accountants in the big 4 firms. I worked for the 5th largest firm in the U.S. in a relatively large city and was begging to get more corporate work and state work. I got some consolidated state work which made me a hot prospect, but never picked up any ASC 740 work. Provision work and quarterly estimates related to ASC 740 is one of the best ways to get out of public accounting but it is genuinely hard to find if you are at a smaller, non big 4, firm.

    It’s too easy to get stuck in public accounting if you are a tax accountant, mainly for the lack of jobs and difficult skillset required to exit. For those two reasons alone, you should seriously consider auditing in you enter public accounting.

    If that’s not enough, here’s a few more reasons to enter accounting as an auditor, as opposed to a tax accountant.

    The transition from a public auditor to a private accountant is very common and well accepted within the industry. If you have taken part in an audit and understand a company’s basic accounting system and you have proven to be a decent auditor/accountant, you’ve got a leg up on any open position at the client you are working on. Chances are there will be a position available in the accounting department which you will qualify for; the position might be considered entry level but with a CPA license and a half a year of audit experience you’ve already got a big head start on the rest of the competition (Staff accountant Sr Accountant  Assistant Controller  Controller  Vice President of Finance, etc.) Case and point, my fellow former audit coworker at my firm only lasted six months before she was fired from the firm. Seven days later she was at a nice, cushy internal accounting position for one of the most respected Pacific Northwest companies we have to offer. She cut her working hours in half and doubled her pay and was on the fast track to a senior internal auditor role which let her travel the world (to places you would actually want to go). Yet there I was, stuck in Tax. I’m happy for her as she really needed to get away from the firm to devote time to her child.

    Tax accountants and auditors both have billable hour goals they strive to achieve every year. Depending on the size of your firm (Big 4= 2200-2400 vs Regional Midsize Firm= 1650-1900) you will have varying hours expected to work. Work means billable hours; partners couldn’t care less if you come to work and sit on your rear end browsing Facebook. Billable hours are obsessively monitored and is considered the lifeblood statistic for public accounting (profitability per FTE is also extremely important). My point is that billable hours are stressful and many. For tax accountants, there are no easy billable hours; you are sitting in your chair focusing intently for hours on a single client attempting to resolve their issues and put all the puzzle pieces together, even if they don’t give you all the pieces you need to complete the puzzle. Auditors, on the other hand, have the benefit of picking up a decent amount of their hours traveling. One of my fellow former auditor coworkers admitted that he picks up a decent amount of his billable hours commuting to and from his place of audit; he is on the clock as soon as he leaves his driveway. When I told him that tax accountants don’t have the benefit of picking up those easy hours he admitted how stress free some of his hours were. There are no easy billable hours in tax accounting, unfortunately.

    Speaking of missing puzzle pieces, tax accountants frequently don’t receive all the information needed to complete their work on each client but partners take pride in only contacting tax clients once. If there is a hole in equity, you have to figure out and infer a significant amount of information from limited data. Auditors, on the other hand, can make many requests for information; they can’t sign off on the unqualified opinion if they don’t feel confident in their information. There’s an understanding from the accounting department under audit that they need to bend over backwards to assist auditors in everything they need. Tax accountants don’t enjoy this benefit. Tax accountants have the burden of receiving limited information to create a complex tax filing which may generate a tax liability which angers the client. When I wanted to contact a client, I would almost always have to go through a director for permission and most of my requests were denied; we had a “just get it done with what you have” mentality.

    That’s my rant for the day. It’s free advice, if you want it. Sorry if it is a rough read with crappy grammar…rushed through it.

    I would be curious to hear any dissenting opinions.

    Good luck out there.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)
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  • #581133
    Lindrobe
    Member

    smith65, I totally agree with you about the locality of many in house tax positions. I live in a smaller town in Indiana and in house tax jobs are almost nonexistent. My experience is in non-profit tax (large University) and I am really struggling with where to go with my career. I am looking into working at small CPA firms, but worry that if I am only able to get more tax experience, I won't have many exit opportunities later.

    You are totally on par with your comments above and it is kind of ironic that I am struggling with a lot of the same issues you are right now.

    FAR 12/3/14, 87
    AUD 2/3/14, 90
    BEC 4/1/14, 88
    REG 5/27/14, 94

    Licensed CPA, Indiana

    "Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

    #581134
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    While I've always lived in major cities, I agree with 95% of what you said here…thusly, after spending the first 2.5 years of my career in tax, I will be starting an entry level audit associate position in August at a Big 4 firm 🙂 I'm a happy camper.

    There are some pros to being in tax, but they are few and far between…and can actually be seen as cons depending on how you look at it.

    Pro: Tax laws always change, so you'll always be learning.

    Same logic turned into a Con: The tax laws are always changing, so as a young accountant I feel I can never get a good grasp on things.

    Pro: The tax law is difficult to understand; there will always be a need for tax preparers in the world, so the prospects of having your own tax firm are great.

    Same logic turned into a Con: With companies like H&R block, programs like TurboTax and the like, many potential clients rather pay as little as possible to get their required tax returns completed. They are not necessarily willing to pay the price of a REAL tax accountant that will add value.

    #581135
    Lindrobe
    Member

    Sorry-not trying to take over this post, but it is a topic that really hits home with me.

    FAR 12/3/14, 87
    AUD 2/3/14, 90
    BEC 4/1/14, 88
    REG 5/27/14, 94

    Licensed CPA, Indiana

    "Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

    #581136
    vanadium3
    Member

    Well, gee.. Sounds like someone is only focusing on the negatives. Of course it's all bad if you think it's all bad!

    Although I do not have that much experience yet, I did work in audit and tax. Audit at large firm for a year, and now tax at small firm. Maybe it's the culture change, although stressful, but I don't work that much during busy season. Maybe 50- 55 billable per week for 2.5 months in march-april, sept-oct. Rest of the year is your regular 40 hours. People are nice, boss values you, not a lot of pressure to fit in/office politics, and over average pay than audit. I also have my own office.

    The exist opportunity isn't as good as audit, but what if you didn't like audit to begin with? With all the travel, confrontation, being at client sites when they don't want you there, etc. can really take a toll on your life.

    I don't think it's that much harder to switch to industry as your regular staff accountant from tax and work your way up. It might be a longer route than audit to controller, but that's not a guarantee either.

    At a smaller tax firm, you can get much more opportunities to work with clients and see how small-medium size business works. It's very helpful for people who might want to start their own business in the long run.

    TL;DR Audit is great only if you can stick it out till senior/manager. Lower level audit/tax doesn't make that much difference.

    CPA

    #581137
    impska
    Member

    The main reason to go into tax is to make your own job – not to get stuck in Big 4. How many sole-proprietor auditors do you know? Who would even want to hire one?

    But if you specialize in small business and individual income tax, the world of self-employment is wide open. Set your own hours and reap the rewards for the work you, personally, put in. Maybe get big enough to hire some people – or not – totally up to you.

    So really, your topic heading should be more accurately stated as, “Don't be a Big 4 tax accountant” or “Don't go into corporate tax.”

    If you want to work in the corporate world your whole life, then the smart money is absolutely on audit – for the exit opportunities. But if you want to be self-employed, then the smart money is on tax – for the self-employment opportunities. Either way, you are the one who needs to take control of the direction of your career to ensure that you get the experience you need to get to where you want in life.

    REG - 94
    BEC - 92
    FAR - 92
    AUD - 99

    #581138
    smith65
    Member

    @Lindrobe – Sorry to hear of the struggles. I exited public accounting and took a tax information reporting position with a publicly traded company but realize I'm working my way into an extremely specific/niche position, effectively trapping myself. I had to get out of public accounting though; just had a kid and was working well over 50-55 billable at a large firm (I worked every Saturday and some Sundays from early January through April 15th; worked 90 hours per week in some of the early April/late March weeks).

    @CPA4birthdaypresent – Yup. Plenty of job security in public accounting assuming you can handle the workload and partners are happy with you. If you get fired it's hard to find a tax job though, unlike getting fired as an auditor. My thoughs and prayers to you as you go into a big4 firm.

    @vanadium3 – Nice situation for you, it sounds like. In all fairness, I liked all of my partners/directors, but at a certain point (tax supervisor/tax manager) the pay isn't worth the stress. Not to mention you make 75-100k and your partners make 400k while clearly not having the skillset you (supervisor/manager) have. I've got a buddy at the managerial level who clearly understand the tax code and software systems better than any partner he works for and it drives him nuts that they make 5 to 6 times more than him.

    I suppose my rant definitely isn't a one size fits all…..but I wish somebody had given me the heads up five years ago.

    #581139
    smith65
    Member

    @impska – agree whole heartedly that tax is best if you want to be self employed in 1040s and small/simple corp/scorp/partnerships.

    Being self employed in tax can be terrifying though. I did go into tax thinking maybe I would start my own firm. After a few years, it became clear to me that I did not feel comfortable subjecting myself to that amount of risk. I'm risk averse.

    #581140
    impska
    Member

    It is scary to be on your own and know that if you screw up and make a mistake, it falls squarely on you. But there is insurance for errors and omissions.

    REG - 94
    BEC - 92
    FAR - 92
    AUD - 99

    #581141
    Lindrobe
    Member

    @smith65, I am right there with you on the niche experience. Not too many organizations looking for a non-profit tax accountant. 🙂

    FAR 12/3/14, 87
    AUD 2/3/14, 90
    BEC 4/1/14, 88
    REG 5/27/14, 94

    Licensed CPA, Indiana

    "Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

    #581142
    itsjustatest
    Member

    I work in audit and the classic joke is how much it would suck to work in tax. Although i am sure tax makes the same joke about audit, it really really would suck to work in tax.

    Dont do it.

    AUD - 83
    REG - 78
    FAR - 69,73,79
    BEC - 85

    #581143
    rfc63
    Participant

    I'm in a small tax firm right now and I would have to agree with the original poster. Unfortunately, I have to meet the experience requirement so I'm stuck here until I can get a review or 2 under my belt.

    #581144
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    …and I thought something was wrong with me for having these feelings about tax…well at least now I know I'm not crazy XD

    #581145
    Lindrobe
    Member

    @CPA4birthdaypresent, at least you live in a big city, so if you were stuck in tax, not that huge of a deal. I can probably count on one hand the amount of firms I know where I live that have their own in house tax department.

    FAR 12/3/14, 87
    AUD 2/3/14, 90
    BEC 4/1/14, 88
    REG 5/27/14, 94

    Licensed CPA, Indiana

    "Successful people do things that unsuccessful people don't want to do"

    #581146
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    As an NYC Big4 taxer, you guys just live in shitty places. =P

    #581147
    WeWillSee
    Member

    I work in a medium sized regional firm, and I just spent the first part of my summer researching complex nexus issues and preparing state returns and estimates – and a good portion of last busy season preparing complex corporate provisions and returns. Which means I have to know a fair amount about GAAP and tax code

    I don't disagree with everything, which is why I'm contemplating the MAcc program rather than MBT – but I feel like you get more pigeon holed at a Big 4 firm than a firm like mine. A lot of tax seniors and managers have been recruited by clients to work privately for them – so it's definitely not impossible to transition from a public tax to a private non-tax position.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)
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