I dont think public accounting will be on a hiring binge for a couple years...
CPA EXAM - Passed
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Delaney21
offlineMemberI'll give my breakdown since I have had a few jobs over the past 7ish years.
After college (2003) I started out at a Big 4 firm making $43k - I was a newly wed and never saw my husband, so I quit after a year. I went to work at a large retail corporation in the Risk Management department making $55k. After a year there, the company merged with another company and the headquarters was moved out of state, so I had to find a new job. My next job was for a large automotive supplier doing SEC reporting for $65k a year. I stayed there 2 years, had a baby and decided to be a stay at home mom. I went back to work about 18 months ago for another large automotive supplier doing consolidations. I work part time (24 hours a week) and I make $35/hour. I know if I were to look for a full-time position I'd be making closer to $85k right now.
2003 - $43k
2004 - $55k
2005 - $65k
2008 - $35/hr part timeI think I've been pretty lucky.
Posted 2 years ago # -
skiw97
offlineMemberdo what you can to get in and out of public accounting as fast as possible, try and work for a big 4 firm on their private clients so you get a lot more experience with the balance sheet, different clients, non-sox controls (bc sox is a joke)
the big 4 will take your life away, if that is what you want, congrats and I'm happy for you. I came in as an experienced associate after working for a regional firm for 1.5 years, made senior after 3 busy seasons, and was laid off after my second brutal busy season. I was making 70k and my firm froze raises on everyone that did not get promoted. I feel so bad for all my friends who still work there, after you make senior, over 70% of your time is spent doing stuff that doesnt matter, and all your bosses want you just to work late and have you do their work. its truly horrible. I wouldnt go back for 90k right now, no way. You get good benefits but seriously you will not have a life. Partners average life span is 55 years. Senior Managers walk around looking at their blackberries all day while there wife is at home with the kids while they are cracking jokes about how crappy the client is and how cool they are for drinking 12 red bulls and solving some TPS report which no one in their right mind cares about. No ones cares about any thing you do, public accounting is a joke for all the hours you put in, about 10% of your hours are value added, the other 90% is you wasting your life and thinking you are cool wokring for "big 4", no one cares other then your buddy who just worked on a spreadsheet for 300 hours, came up with a SUD, but then you and the manager made it go away and you either ate hours or got a bad performance. Good luck to all of you.
FAR 11/13 - 78, BEC 1/13 - 82, AUD 2/23 - 94, REG is nextPosted 2 years ago # -
luckypenny786
offlineMemberwow skiw97, that definitely sounds terrible... I've heard similar things from some of my friends that work for big 4. I work at a small local CPA firm (4 full time employees and 4 more part time) and it's totally the opposite. I'm not wasting my time doing pointless work and I'm actually taken seriously even though I don't have much experience (I graduated in May and only had a couple years of interning at another small company before that). Pay is probably a little less than big 4, but I get pretty good benefits and my company pays 100% of my insurance premiums. I like public accounting at a smaller firm because you actually get to know your clients and you're able to make a real difference. I do mostly tax and business consulting work so I'm actually able to add value with the majority of my work.
D O N E !Posted 2 years ago # -
The GaJone
offlineMemberI'm 25 years old and have been at the same CPA firm (8 partners, 14 staff accountants) in SW Ohio for a little over 3 years. We don't deal with any publicly traded companies and have a lot of not-for-profit clients. I'm pretty much 50/50 between tax an audit although I'm starting to get a little more audit work than tax. Here's my breakdown:
Salary: about $45k (started at $37,500)
No standard bonuses, though I have received two separate new higher referral bonuses of $1,500 each since I've started
20 days of paid time off (started with 20)
Crappy HSA health plan
401K with 75% match on first 5%
37.5 hours per week non-busy season
Flex time in non-busy season (probably the greatest thing ever)
50 hours per week through February
55 hours per week March - April 15
Today is January 27th and busy season hours still haven't started yet (may start next week though)
Saturdays are not mandatory in busy season
No set requirement for billable hours or percentage
They pay $3,000 per year in tuition if you are working towards you 150 semester/225 quarter hours requirement (which I took full advantage of)
Becker (or a CPA review service of your choice) is paid for
Literally $0 bonus for passing the CPA exam, though you need it to advance in the firm obviouslyAll in all it's a pretty good gig. The hours are less than basically every CPA firm I have heard of, and to not have a set minimum amount of billable hours is very nice.
FAR: 81 (1/20) AUD: 88 (2/27) REG: 91 (4/19) BEC: 75 (5/20)Posted 2 years ago # -
skiw97
offlineMemberyeah, bottom line, if you want work life balance, pick a small firm, non-sec... so much of the big 4 time is spent on COMLIANCE, internal quality control programs are never-ended, PCAOB, SEC, it just never ends, the worst is when you work so hard and so long on something that isnt even a client deliverable, just gets thrown in the database (maybe) and you dont get any credit for it. You will get paid a large premium for working in big 4 and have access to many more high paying jobs, but I mean these people live horrible personal lives. I witnessed it for 5 years. Bigger the company, the bigger the problems, the greater the competition, its cut-throat.
2003 i worked for regional firm, 38k plus quarterly travel bonues (ended up being 2.5k every quarter for me), not much overtime because it was all outsourced internal audit and SOX implementation projects... these jobs really dont exsist any more.
2004 I was bumped to 45k plus the normal bonuses.. left to join big 4 at the end of the year, started at 52.5 but this is when SOX was EXPLODING and business was booming.
2005 up to 55.5
2006 up to 58.5
2007 promoted to senior and 66.5k
2008 70k
laid off in july 2009 making 70k
In my opinion, the big 4 is not what it used to be, there was such a move towards lucrative 404 projects, then that business split in half, now so many compannies are distressed, we always want to charge more, but our clients look at us as COMPLIANCE, no value added, and want us to reduce our fees. There was also a ton of M&A activity in 2004-2007 that led to a number of great opportunies for audit/consulting firms. Clients HATE auditors. and when HR calls you and tells you they have a great "opportunity for you", know that it means they are sending you to austin texas for 3 months to work on a project in which you will work till 10pm everyday in a room full of road warriors who pound coffees and diet coke while checking their blackberries 39 times per 6 hours.. oh and guess what, no one cares what you are doing.
I think I did these vents because I'm finally studying for the CPA exam and currently on audit and its bringing back all the memories and nonsense. If you want more money, no life, and more vacation that you will never use, join the big 4. bottom line, PA is brutal and getting to be more and more cutthroat.
FAR 11/13 - 78, BEC 1/13 - 82, AUD 2/23 - 94, REG is nextPosted 2 years ago # -
EAB325
offlineMemberQualifications:
BA in Accounting
Masters in Accounting
Hired as a new hire, no experience (other than summer internship), for $54K at a Big 4
Benefits: 25 days PTO, 10 paid holidaysResigned from the firm 1 year later, hired for $60,500 in internal audit at a public healthcare company.
Benefits: 19 days PTO, 10 paid holidays, no busy season, get to go home between 5 - 5:30 PM everyday, enjoy the sun and beach, never work weekends, get great experience learning the operations of a company and seeing how a company runs inside and out as opposed to ticking and tying and making sure the senior manager is happy with the way I worded my work papers or the size of my font, and where I underlined something instead of having it in italics.Big 4 is "a great place to launch a career", no argument there whatsoever, but unless you are on the fast track to partner and that is what you're truly passionate about, there's more money to be made in industry or consulting vs external audit at a B4.
Posted 2 years ago # -
skiw97
offlineMemberwell said, launch a career and do what you can to get the heck out. I put an audit plan together for an entire week (this is in addition to the one I had already put together but a new S. Manager came in and wanted it his way).. no one ever looked at it, ever, it was a complete waste of time yet I spent minimal 2 hours a day updating it and distributing it to staff and client. basicially, when he came in, he had me spend 3 weeks doing things that were not in the budget, we were already short staffed to begin with. THe prior 3 years we used a 3 slided powerpoint presentation that we used for the kickoff meeting... it worked well, covered everything that was required, and was just simple, 4 hour project. This guy took it over and created a 70 slide one, the presentation took all day, people called in from other clients, no value, complete waste of time.
That is just big 4 though, smaller firms have much less requirments and dont have to deal with politics nearly as much. This guy was in line for partner and there is a very long line so he was just willing to do whatever to impress whoever. A real dink.
If you truly have plans to "put your time in", go big 4 but work in their private company practice. You'll do laps around people that get put on a fortune 100 and spend two years doing simple balance sheet account audits and controls, you'll be out doing plant visits, assisting with purchase accounting, and have your hands all over a variety of substantive tests over key asset and liablity cycles/accounts.
FAR 11/13 - 78, BEC 1/13 - 82, AUD 2/23 - 94, REG is nextPosted 2 years ago # -
Bobbins
offlineMemberI wish I had found this site and this topic when I was in college. Back then everyone I talked to told me to start in public accounting at a large firm to see and work on a variety of clients. Ha!
As an auditor at a large firm I got stuck mainly on one client type, and like many previous posts I found myself doing far more "busy work" than I like such as reformatting spreadsheets to meet the managers specifications, ticking and tying, making copies, etc. I worked 60 hours minimum during busy season, and often was on the road for weeks at a time which my girlfriend hated. The worst was working a 10-12 hour day at the client and then being told I needed to do 3-4 hours of work in my hotel room that night. That was not what I signed up for. I'd be exhausted all week, have to work Saturday, and spend the rest of the weekend trying to recover for the next week.
I was laid off from that job, which at the time seemed unlucky but now I'm not so sure. I found a job with a smaller CPA firm where I get paid the same, work 40 hours a week, and have a lot more flexibility in my life. In addition there is not the competition I felt while working at the large firm. Working at the large firm was good for only one thing, it opened more doors for me when people saw that experience on my resume. My advice is to find a private company, small CPA firm, or Government entity that you fit with and pursue that. You will be happier.
AUD - 85 (7/24/09) BEC - 90 (8/31/09) REG - 86 (11/16/09) FAR - 82 (05/11/10) *I'm a CPA!!!Posted 2 years ago # -
weed74
offlineMemberI really enjoyed the posts by skiw97 and GaJone and they definitely agree with what I've seen in public accounting and with what I've heard from other public accountants. It looks like the best way to make more cash is to move around from company to company. Government looks like the best job if you want work/life balance. Respectable salary, 40 hour week, and plenty of vacation and holidays.
I have to agree with them. Get a few years in public and get out. The only bad news is that the job market is tight and many accountants with 10-20 years of experience are looking for jobs, just like those with 5 years experience. May have to stick it out another year or two until the economy gets going again.
AUD - 84
BEC - 80
REG - 75
FAR - 80Posted 2 years ago # -
BlondeAccountant
offlineMemberdo you guys think this is crap?
Small accounting firm in CA
40K since I started, about 2 years ago, and NO raise and NO bonusprior accounting experience in previos jobs, B.A. in accounting/business economics
passed 3 out of 4 CPA exams so faris it as crappy as it seems?
Posted 2 years ago # -
skiw97
offlineMemberwell, its not crap bc its valuable work experience... I worked for a smaller firm in a smaller market, made the jump to big 4 and got like a 20% increase.. if you are working normal hours, not traveling around the country on sunday nights and getting back late friday nights, stay there, get your cpa, and make the jump to a nice cushy corporate job when the time is right.. it all depends what you want. I wouldnt go back to my big 4 job for 90k, and I was making 70k when I left. I really never wanted that lifestyle (go go go go go go go, give the company more), but you just kinda get sucked in, and "everyone else is doing it" so you just turn into a hardcore auditor, lol. $$$ is not everything, focus on what you want in life and you'll get it!!
FAR 11/13 - 78, BEC 1/13 - 82, AUD 2/23 - 94, REG is nextPosted 2 years ago # -
Puerto Rico Romo
offlineMemberHaven't worked in accounting since I did a tax internship in 08, went straight to Law School after I graduated from college. Worked for a big 4 during that tax internship and it was brutal. Horrible hours, personal issues did not let me focus @ work among other stuff.
Posted 2 years ago # -
J
offlineMemberMy qualifications:
BS - Accounting
4 years experience with B4Started at $52. Currently $68K, audit 5-6% bonus during 2007/2008 (no bonus or raise for 2009) - during an audit, anywhere from 70-90 hour weeks; 40-45 hours otherwise. BTW, busy season is not limited to Jan-Mar ...expect it to be year-round.
I agree with the Skiw97, get your experience and move on.
Posted 2 years ago # -
LionGrad2001
offlineMemberBlonde,
You have a very real gripe. I work in CA as well, and documented my career on page 1. I think you have a legitimate beef and would consider why you aren't being given raises/bonuses.
Have your performance reviews been positive? That may be a large factor. I know it is in our firm. Give it a thought.
A lot also depends on the financial viability of firms right now. Our firm is doing well; only letting people go when we are overstaffed. We get at least COLA every year and if you put in the time during the year, a handsome bonus.
We will be looking for some staff later on in the year (prior to school district audit busy season kicks off), so if you are up in Northern CA, keep this thread in the back of your mind and drop me PM around April if you are interested in hearing more about our firm.
Posted 1 year ago # -
vincec
offlineMemberI'm the head of a small accounting department at a local investment/accounting firm in Northern California. My stats:
- 7 years experience
- Bachelor Degree
- 3 tests passed and waiting on score of fourth
- Salary is 72k/year
- No set sick days policy
- No set vacation, just on honor system to not abuse it (I have used 3 days this past year)
- Exam fees are reimbursed
- Medical insurance
- Profit sharing bonus in cash/equityBEC - Passed, AUD - Passed, REG - Passed, FAR - Passed, CA Ethics - PassedPosted 1 year ago # -
vincec
offlineMemberBlondeAccountant: I don't think so. For me, it's definitely quality that counts and not just hours. What it really comes down to, to me, is profitability. If you do value-added work, you should be compensated for it. In my position, I bill at $250/hour. My company makes a nice profit and I should share in that. By the way, I very rarely work more than 40 hours a week. Heck, during the slow season I might work 30. I definitely have a life outside of work and like it that way. Life is way too short to bury yourself in work and stress so just find what fits you best. By the way, around which area in SoCal are you? I lived there for quite a few years and it's interesting to hear about the market down there.
BEC - Passed, AUD - Passed, REG - Passed, FAR - Passed, CA Ethics - PassedPosted 1 year ago # -
Iwillpasswithalife
offlineMemberBlonde,
You can work at a medium sized regional firm in Houston, Dallas, or Austin and make more than that as a brand new staff. I started as a senior at a small firm in Austin at $50K moved to industry working at a non-public company at $60K. Make $70K now in Austin and don't have a CPA yet. I get 401K matching here and a 90/10 medicial plan (some companies do 80/20). I don't work a lot of hours. I graduated in 2004 with a BS from USC.
I do have Big 4 Experience though working on 1st year SOX and an S-1 filing for a $250M revenue a year client that that got me good looks when I went out of state. Cost of living is probably like 50% less here than in CA. My electric bill in Austin is $80 a month with a 2000 sq ft house because I live in a co-op. Houses in my neighborhood go from $130-275K depending on how ridiculous of a home you want and is on a golf course.
REG - 67, 76 (Q4 2009) - Used CPAExcel first time, Used CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
BEC - 83 (Q1 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
AUD - 89 (Q2 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
FAR - 81 (Q4 2010) - Roger CPA + CPAReviwForFreePosted 1 year ago # -
Iwillpasswithalife
offlineMemberYes, I grew up in CA. North CA Bay Area. I loved CA, but the cost of living is ridiculous there. Austin to me is very similar to San Franciso except Austin gets better weather and it's cheaper to live here. There is a good mix of liberals and conservatives which is a good thing to me. Too many liberals and conservatives in one area is just bad in general imo. They have a lot of music and art events in downtown. The live music scence is strong here.
Downside is there is no beach and the weather here is pretty wicked compared to CA. Texas is also one of the big allergy capitals in the country so if you have allergies it can get pretty bad. I have no allergies in CA or AZ but have them in TX. Very mild though. If your into gardening, Austin is pretty tough to garden in. We either have clay or stone here and both are pretty hard on gardens and landscaping. I love Texas and won't be moving back to CA unless I become uber wealthy. I would probably have to make double of what I make now to have the quality of living I have here. Really the only reasons I have to go to CA now is for family and my desire to train MMA out there because they have great no-gi training out in CA. My community pool has waterslides and a gym and they are building a school in the community...I can't imagine what a community like that would cost in the bay area.
I have not lived in Dallas or Houston, but I actually think Houston is nicer than Dallas. Houston has a lot of greeny everywhere dispite it's size. There are trees everywhere there, but it's too close to gulf coast for comfort. I've only seen the rougher parts of Dallas though.
REG - 67, 76 (Q4 2009) - Used CPAExcel first time, Used CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
BEC - 83 (Q1 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
AUD - 89 (Q2 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
FAR - 81 (Q4 2010) - Roger CPA + CPAReviwForFreePosted 1 year ago # -
financeguy
offlineMemberI've lived in CA all my life...grew up on the coast but am in Sac now. I hear a lot of good things about Austin. I'm getting really sick of all the welfare and handout and taxes in CA, and I hear more and more things that I think are being done right in TX. Plus, you guys have Ron Paul...pretty much the most level headed politician of my lifetime.
AUD - 81, BEC - 74, 80, FAR - 82, REG - 81
Done!Posted 1 year ago # -
Iwillpasswithalife
offlineMemberThe only thing Texas is dropping the ball on is on renewable energy but they are working on it. I do know that Austin Energy has the most generous solar panel incentive in the country. They cover half the cost plus you get the federal credit so your payoff timeframe is reduced by half.
REG - 67, 76 (Q4 2009) - Used CPAExcel first time, Used CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
BEC - 83 (Q1 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
AUD - 89 (Q2 2010) - CPAExcel + CPAReviewForFree
FAR - 81 (Q4 2010) - Roger CPA + CPAReviwForFreePosted 1 year ago #
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