[gg2929]

I’m just wondering here, how many years of experience are required to become a manufacturing plant controller? Whether it is long or short isn’t important to me, I just want to know the truth. One would think it takes more years of experience to become a plant controller at Caterpillar than at a smaller company.

I’m asking because knowing will help me assess how to approach my life upon graduation (and now in some senses) in the sense of continued learning. I really enjoy learning new things and applying them to my life to grow as a person and academically. I never consider the status quo to mean much, because I know I have the persistence to move past it.

Is becoming a plant controller something that is ‘bound’ to happen if you stay in the manufacturing industry long enough, or is it different than that? What is the next stop beyond plant controller?

I am asking because knowing the answers to these questions will help me justify what I do in the meantime.

I don’t want to put too much emphasis on goals, because the meaning should be in the process and not the result. You don’t want to wait to start having the life you want.

So part of the reason I am asking this question is to figure out the process.

I don’t mean to come off the wrong way, but I think I would be better at being a CEO than I would be at any other job. I realize that 99% of the people out there are better than me at 99% of things, but I have a natural sense for independent thinking and business strategy that would be advantageous in that role. (Once I have the appropriate industry experience) I suck at most things in the world, but that is where my strengths lie.

But really though, life changes, you get married, have kids, maybe your goals will change, maybe they won’t. Maybe the enjoyment you get from the process will help you to be a better partner, parent, ect. Or maybe you won’t be as career oriented at that point and would be fine cruising at a safe income.

If I know what my vision is, I will have a better perspective of what approach to take. Do I continue reading articles from Stanford Business twitter feed like I am now, or do I watch an episode of a TV show I like? (I enjoy both, so long as the learning has a purpose. I’m very purpose oriented) Do I spend those years to learn more that may come in handy years down the road, or do I find relief in not having it all and staying in the plant?

Essentially, I would like to not have goals at all, put the purpose and meaning 100% in the process, and just have a vision and relish life in the meantime but like I said, I’m purpose oriented and continued personal learning would have more meaning if its connected to something, at least it’s not easy to see it differently right now.

If feel like I want to send a message, that the status quo doesn’t mean much. But I don’t want to think that now, spend time on it, and then get older and realize its not what I care about.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you much to all.

P.S. here is a video that is well worth the watch. If you have an hour or so its something good to watch with your family.

https://inner-sports.com/speaking/

[Anonymous]

Requirements vary from job posting to job posting – I'd suggest that you look up “Controller” in various different areas and get a sampling of the requirements for each (maybe even make a fancy spreadsheet with all of it). For example, here's one that showed up in my job feed a few weeks back: https://www1.apply2jobs.com/rytway/ProfExt/index.cfm?fuseaction=mExternal.showJob&RID=1596 5 years' experience in cost accounting/industry/manufacturing. However, the region I live in is fairly low-population, so fewer prospects, so who knows what they'd require in a larger area? So, I'd suggest you look at some postings from the middle of nowhere like this, and some from larger regions, and average it all out to make a goal. Here's another local one for more samples: https://www.tweetmyjobs.com/polaris-industries-inc-jobs-plant-controller-premier-oem-13425751?src=2&utm_campaign=polaris&utm_medium=xml&utm_source=indeed

Like you said, it would also take more years of experience to become controller at Caterpillar than at something like the my first link, which is a smaller, more local thing. From what I've gathered, most publicly-traded companies (like Caterpillar) will officially require Big 4 experience for Controllers, though this can sometimes be set aside.

In my personal opinion, the best way to get to a higher-up career goal is to do more than required of you at every job you have so that you can move up the ladder.

Also, as you're planning for your future and making a goal, I'd be curious to hear why a manufacturing plant controller is your ideal job. I enjoyed my cost accounting courses so thought I'd want to do manufacturing accounting when I was in college, but since then have learned more about other fields of accounting and realized that manufacturing wasn't 100% my best fit…so curious to hear the pro's that you're seeing with it. 🙂

[gg2929]

Thank you. I find much more interest in financial, cost, and managerial accounting than tax or audit, so I don't think public accounting is for me. With that being said, I'm wondering if it is possible to overcome the no big 4 experience by having nearly all your career in manufacturing?

[Anonymous]

That's one of those things where the individual company can make an exception. However, if you'll be responsible for making the accounting records pass Big 4 audit, it's only logical they'd want you to have seen the inside of a Big 4 audit, so I can see the logic behind the Big 4 requirement. Myself, I think that someone who has worked the job from the bottom up is more useful than someone who's sat in a cubicle marking “yay” or “nay” on papers for 5 years (my impression of Big 4 audit 🙂 ), but they don't ask me. 😉

You might want to consider Controller or CFO level in a non-public company – those are less-likely to require Big 4 experience. Also, IMHO, the smaller the company, the more influence you have to offer ideas and improve processes, which it sounds like is one of the things that you want to do. The bigger the company, the more “red tape” stands between you and making any improvements. Just a thought – you know best of anyone what would suit you best. 🙂

[mla1169]

Too many variables, there will be no hard and fast answer. CEO and controller are not the same, by a long shot!

In a small privately held company someone with minimal experience can be called a controller. In larger companies it depends on the industry. For example you could have 20 years' experience in management but if it's not specifically in the SAAS industry, they won't even look at you.

I research job postings extensively. Some ask for 10+ years experience but that doesn't mean they won't consider the RIGHT person who only has 5. For defense manufacturers, it is a niche industry because not many CPA's are familiar with Federal Acquisition Regulations and 2 solid years reading government contracts counts for more than 20 years GL experience.

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[gg2929]

The reason I see manufacturing as a fit is because the skills in cost and management accounting translate to skills in management positions. These include improving inefficiencies to limit non-value added time, making the most of plant square-footage, and constantly improving processes. It's in me genetically to move beyond the status quo.

Cost accounting involves more critical thinking (at least my impression) than other accounting roles. It might actually even be easier than other types of accounting but the type of thinking is what interests me.

[mla1169]

I think you might want to talk to a few cost accountants. You seem to have an opinion that's based on your perceptions.

Cost accounting is not about critical thinking, at all. It's about ethically and legally making things look the way management wants them to look. Cost accountants don't make any decisions at all. They really just take direction and run the scoreboard so to speak. You only get to know what people WANT you to know and even then you're forced to rely on their interpretation of the information (I.E. an engineer tells you they spent 300 hours on a project that is now 50% complete, come to find out 2 months later the entire project took 1300 hours and you have to explain how 300 is 50% of 1300).

Don't get me wrong I LOVE cost accounting. It's what I've done for a very long time. But it's only a fraction (small fraction) of the responsibility of a CEO, and the only decision I make on a day to day basis is what to wear to work!

FAR- 77
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Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[gg2929]

Thanks mla.

Do you ever have a say in processes, such as which activities add value and which activities do not?

Also, maybe critical thinking isn't the appropriate way to put it. My perception is that cost accounting involves finding the correct information to create a factually accurate journal entry for COGS, ect. and the processes involved in that are more fun and do involve a bit of critical thinking.

[mla1169]

The critical thinking involved is really nothing more than learning to call BS on repeat offenders. For example, when “Mike” tells me a project is 50% done, my history with him makes me book 30% to COGS. I'm getting pretty accurate with translation of his wishful thinking to reality.

Here's what a cost accountant actually does: at the end of the month project A shows $100k in revenue and $50k in cost. Management predicted 50% margin so cost accountant does nothing further. (Ideally cost accountant would still drill down but no time!). Project B shows $200k in revenue and $240k in cost. Management also predicted 50% margin. Cost accountant works with engineering (did we say 600 hours? Oops! We meant 1300 hours), purchasing (we really thought gold would still be $900/oz, didn't realize that quote was for 30 days and by the time we ordered 35 days later it was $1100/oz!), production (sure we said 400 hours to build but Dave quit and we're training a new guy who isn't as fast) and IT (even though we only shipped 50% of that work order,SAP isn't intuitive enough to back flush 50% of the cost, you'll have to do a journal entry to fix the flaw in the ERP system.)

By the time you're done talking to everybody, explaining your life away and making the required reversing entries the month is over and you're starting the cycle all over again.

But it IS fun in that you start to see patterns and anticipate the comedy of errors before they happen. a GREAT cost accountant babysits their projects all month long so almost all the questions above have been addressed BEFORE month end.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[gg2929]

thanks mla, awesome answer. that sounds fun 🙂

[mla1169]

Wouldn't change it for anything! That said the few, the proud, who can build relationships across all functional areas like that, are totally pigeon holed and kept right there because not everyone can handle it. At my last job my peers (also cost accountants but for different product lines than mine) had been there 30 and 35 years, respectively.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[gg2929]

so are you saying that advancing your career is harder if you are good at your job and a cost accountant?

[mla1169]

Advancing your career within the same company in my experience is harder. The catch is you might be able to change employers and move up or they may say you have no experience with direct reports. So when you're interviewing for ANY position it's important to ask why the position is available. If it's available because of a promotion you're more likely to be able to move up than if the position is available because your predecessor moved on. Part of my challenge with finding a new job is that I only want one that's vacant because of a promotion.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[gg2929]

hmmm. well, what if the promotion happens as a result of you getting the job, meaning, there is someone currently in the position, but that person will be promoted when you get their job?

[mla1169]

That's exactly the scenario I'm talking about. If you're interviewing for a cost accountant job and the person who's at that desk now is going to be the accounting supervisor, controller, senior cost accountant, president, because someone else is taking their desk, it means the company recognizes and values their current employees and grooms them for bigger and better positions. It also means your predecessor wants to stick around and isn't leaving for greener pastures somewhere else. Finally it means you've got someone there with experience in exactly that position who can be a resource if you have questions.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[gg2929]

well, something to consider is fit. maybe the person was leaving because the fit wasn't as good as a different company. my greener is not the same as your greener.

[Author]

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