[D]

I’ll try to make this short but could REALLY use some input on a very difficult situation.

Aug 2013 I transferred to the audit dept at my company. Coming in, I knew my boss’ intent was to make me the supervisor of our group. He had myself, another lady who’s at the company 40+ years, and 4 new college grads directly reporting to him, and he wanted to change the structure to where they all report to me and I report to him.

With one stipulation, he kept saying I want you to be the next Betty (name changed) and learn everything she knows before she retires which could be any year now.(I couldn’t stand him saying that, but I brushed it off as him just emphasizing he wants me to learn from her.) She has more than enough $$$ to retire and is 62, however just wants to keep working…

Betty and I get along for the most part, and even when she treats me like cr** in front of everyone, I still act professional and try to brush it off because I don’t want any workplace drama…

My boss has worked with Betty for the past 7 yrs- he came into our company as an audit director from another company. Because of how much she knows about our company and how long she’s been there, he’s relied a ton on her for his success and she knows this.. and she knows how “valuable” she is, and is very cocky about it.

Betty is knowledgeable, no doubt. She’s been in many management positions in her earlier years, but has decided to “retire on the job” and take a low-level job with the same pay. That said, she is very overbearing and can’t let go of the spotlight and the need to be in charge. She is very loud, always right.

Lately she keeps saying “I just tell it like it is, and I know that’s not the popular thing around here lately”… and my boss made mention that she is just very “direct”, but the truth is about 1/2 the time she is direct, the other 1/2 she is condescending and demeaning to people and can NEVER be wrong.

Jan 2014 I was promoted to supervisor of our group w/1 stipulation. Betty still reports to my boss, everyone else reports to me.

He tells me that he wants me to indirectly act as her supervisor and hints that the reason she doesn’t directly report to me is because of obvious factors (i.e. she wouldn’t take it well, and he’s a people pleaser and needs her around so he wouldn’t want to make her mad by making someone > 1/2 her age her boss). Workload of our group is still the same, I’m just now managing 4 people and indirectly managing 1.. and reporting to him.

Lately work has been miserable because of her, and yesterday was the worst. I love where I work but this was the first time in 4+ yrs I’ve cried behind closed doors out of utter frustration.

She points out things we need to go “chase after” and it always ends up being me having to do it. Right now I’m drowning in work, and I know she’s over in her cube filing her nails. I come in at 7am and usually don’t leave until 5pm. Everyday she strolls in no earlier than 9:30, and rarely stays past 4.

She calls me out in front of my employees and frequently gives me pushback 99% of the time when she’s blaming me for something or questioning why I did something, it ends up being for a perfectly fine reason and nothing ends up being wrong. But she won’t ever apologize or acknowledge she jumped to conclusions too fast.

I can tell it makes my employees uncomfortable the way she talks to me. I stick up for them if she ever makes comments to them about their audit work, and when she has called me out I defend myself in a professional manner, reminding her that a lot of the things she’s questioning me about were things “WE” worked on together and agreed that was the way it needed to be.

I feel embarrassed for not completely telling her off sometimes with how rude she is, because I feel like I’m being a pushover, however I’m just trying to remain the bigger person.

How do I approach this? The times she’s not on her high horse needing to boss everyone and put everyone down she and I actually get along fairly decent.

Should I pull her aside and let her know she’s crossed the line?

Do I directly talk to my boss about this?

I don’t want to seem like I can’t handle the new responsibility I’ve been given, or like I’m whining. Could REALLY use some inputs… if you’ve made it this far- thanks for reading.

**************************
AUD: 77  (Jan 2016)
BEC: 80  (May 2016)
REG: (rematch May 2017)
FAR: (rematch Apr 2017)
**************************

----------
AUD - 74, 77! (1/2016)
BEC - 80! (5/2016)
REG - tbd (8/2016)
FAR - tbd

Study materials: NINJA MCQ/Audio/Notes

"I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me!"
----------

[mla1169]

Pull her aside, and tell her you value her input very much but from one manager to another you will not tolerate being disrespected in front of your staff. At 62 she's not going anywhere anytime soon (she could easily be there another 10 years) but you've earned the right to be treated with respect and will not accept anything less from her or anybody else.

You will likely have to do this more than once.

Talking to your boss will do no good. It's obvious that he is deeply indebted to her and will not be effective in controlling her if he hasn't done so in 7 years. Basically use your best management skills and manage her behavior. I'm sure that's part of the reason your boss handed the gauntlet to you, he felt you were the right person for that job!

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[Anonymous]

Wow. First, sorry you have to deal with a person like that. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like she will be around too much longer.

With how it seems that your boss protects “Betty”, I wouldn't go to him first. I honestly would tell her that you feel you could learn a lot from her (bites tongue) but do not appreciate the tone in which certain things are said and then let her know you want to work as a “team”. AKA the compliment sandwich, surround the tiny negative thing you have to say by a lot of positive words. If that doesn't work, then I would go to the boss.

[h0wdyus]

I think your boss does not deserve to be a boss. Every body is dispensable. It shows that your boss does not want to put in the effort to understand the work and take control of the work. You should look for a job and if you have an HR, write them a big letter about her and the inadequacy of you manager before leaving. You got to tell your boss that you need her out of the way or you are leaving.

FAR - 81 29th Aug 2013
AUD - 84
REG - 82
BEC - 89 29th Aug 2014
Using Yager

FROM NJ

[Skynet]

The irony of this thread was that in my previous job in retail, my former manager was named Betty which I despised.

AUD - 90
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FAR - 84
REG - 87

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[klink24]

As others have said, your boss likes “Betty” and owes her. He knows how she is and hasn't decided to confront her about it yet.

I'd probably handle it a little more subtly than others, but the way I'd handle it involves more non-verbal cues. When she said something disrespectful I'd get completely silent and give her the most icy stare anyone has seen in the office, effectively bringing the entire meeting or whatever to a halt. That way everyone knew my displeasure with the comment but no one could put into words what I did and make me look like the bad guy. It would also make her feel inferior to me and everyone would recognize that as well. But the stare would not be a mean stare, but more of a stare that says, “I'm perplexed that you would speak to me in that manner and I'm processing a response, but now that I think about it you're not worthy of my response so I'll just keep it moving.” Immediately after, I would continue my dialogue ignoring her statement and speak as if the situation never occurred. If at any time she made a good point, I'd own it as if she owed me that suggestion. Like, “That's a great suggestion Betty! I need people who are on the front lines to share their ideas! It only makes my department better.”

That may be a bit much, but effective if pulled off properly. Seriously though, you have to show strength in a leadership role, period. You have to display confidence even if people have been there longer and know more. One thing I said that's true is the fact that you have to treat those folks that know more as if they owe it to you to give you that knowledge and thank them for fulfilling that duty. That's what your boss has done with Betty.

FAR: 4/19/2014 - 85!
AUD: 5/27/2014 - 90!
REG: 7/18/2014 - 81!
BEC: 8/13/2014 - 84!

4 up, 4 down, in 4 months.

Licensed 9/22 in NC.

[fuzyfro89]

Wow, I can't imagine working with such a “dynamic” group.

First, she is not your supervisor, so make that clear to her. I'll defer to you how you can do this.

If it were me, I'd be direct, but polite, and say something to the effect of “Betty, I understand you have a lot of experience, and the team appreciates your deep knowledge in many situations, but please be aware that it may not be a positive reflection of you or me when we have heated discussions in front of the staff.”

Notice I said “we” instead of “you”. Shared blame, or at least appearing that way, may help steer the conversation. It doesn't need to be a big blow up confrontation. I can guarantee she is part cocky, and part unaware of her demeanor. Maybe she believes that's appropriate.

Your boss has no backbone. She made it clear she doesn't want to be in management, but has a problem being managed?

If problems continue and push you to think about quitting, I'd be sure to bring up the topic again. Maybe ask your boss for advice on how to handle Betty the best way. Again, you don't state the problem outright (which often makes you seem like the troublemaker), but just asking for help.

[ridiqls]

Well you said it yourself. Your boss is unwilling and unable to do anything even if you talked to him about it. I mean if you did mention it, he could maybe talk to her but at the end of the day, he won't fire her or do anything other than plead with her to be nicer to you in which case she will take that poorly because you went “behind her back.”

And she's not leaving because well, sounds like her setup is a pretty damn good gig. She has “tenure”, gets paid, shows up late, leaves early and no one can tell her shit.

So you have two choices. Leave or find a way to get along with her. And frankly, if you are considering leaving you might as well play the “stand up for yourself” card because the worst thing that happens is, you and her butt heads even more and you end up leaving anyway. If you're on good terms with your boss maybe you won't get fired but he may tell you you need to find a new job because things are not working out and give you ample time.

In which case, it would be the same as “leaving” on your own volition.

If i were you, I would start prepping for a situation where you have to leave. Shape up your resume and start interviewing. You never know if you can find a better place. If not, then oh well. And I would stop taking shit from her and have a serious talk with her. Sounds like an office bully.

Don't do anything irrational like yell at her or break down in front of the whole office and cuss her out. That wont accomplish anything. Tell her you need to talk to her and then just tell her that you understand how valuable she is to the company and how much you value learning from her but you really need to be treated better because the workplace is not a place where you are happy and productive. You can say it nicely or you can say it firmly depending on what her response is. If her response is “what, you can't take a little criticism?” and she fails to acknowledge that there is even a problem, then me personally.. I would step up even if it meant butting heads. All the while interviewing at another place.

But everyone's situation is different.

If you dont have the luxury to leave then you have no leverage. In which case, i'm sorry to say you may have to talk to her nicely and put up with her crap for a few more years.

EDIT: I need to add, how much leverage you have depends on how valuable you are to the boss, company and the company's future. Because you are being groomed to be the next betty, maybe your boss WOULD let betty go over you. But maybe not. So I'm not sure, you could talk to him about it. But I would probably talk to betty first, then him.

[Anonymous]

My thought: talk to your boss first, then Betty. If you can do it casually while talking about other things, that would be best, but my goal would be to address it in a “I'm handling this, but just FYI” type way. Something like: “I'm sure you're aware of the tensions between Betty and I – I'm going to talk to her about them and try to help her understand that we need to work together as a team” or something like that, so that it's not you going to him with a problem, just you giving him a heads-up about a solution. That way if Betty walks right out of your meeting and goes whining to your boss, your boss already knows the situation…also that way if your boss would side with Betty and get upset with you for talking to her, you know before you talk to her, and can try to explain the situation more thoroughly to him. If you say something like that and he says “Oh, I don't know if you should do that, she's so important to us…” then you can either just take that information and know what to expect or you can play hardball a bit and be like “I know she is important to us, but she is causing a lot of extra stress and drama in the department which is really slowing down productivity. She may be unaware of how she is coming across, so I was going to discuss it with her so that she is aware of how she should be behaving.”

Then after your boss is aware and either in agreement or opposition, you can know better how to proceed with Betty, and a lot of these suggestions above are valuable. However, I would be afraid to go into the situation blind to the boss's opinion…and just like when a little kid goes to tell on another kid, whoever gets to tell their story first is favored, so by presenting to your boss your calm, rational reason to talk to her, he's already got that in mind if/when she tries to whine and paint you as some mean person.

[mla1169]

One more suggestion, and this is something you shouldn't have to do but if it makes your life more bearable may be worth a shot!

Take Betty to lunch. Maybe ask your boss if he knows of any local places she prefers. If you know her angle maybe the two of you can become allies and partners.

My guess is that Betty feels like she has been “put out to pasture” because of her age and may not have given any indication she's considering retirement! She may be aggressive toward you and your staff to somehow make the point she's not all washed up yet. Coming in late and leaving early are tell tale signs that she feels like she had the rug pulled right out from under her.

How is any of this YOUR problem? It's not! But if she can get it off her chest to someone you may see an immediate change in her demeanor and have her loyalty and respect.

If not, you're out a lunch special 😉

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[QuesoDip]

I agree with mla1169. You should try to make allies out of your enemies, regardless of how difficult they may be. I would have to be pushed to the brink of wanting to quit on the spot before deciding to ruffle feathers thus possibly making the work environment even more unbearable. Kill her with kindness and literally buy her out. Buy her chocolates and treat her to lunch!

REG - 88 - 8 Weeks (Becker, Ninja Audio/Flashcards, Wiley TB)
FAR - 87 - 10 Weeks (Becker, Ninja Audio)
AUD - 98 - 6 Weeks (Becker, Ninja Audio, Ninja MCQ)
BEC - 87 - 2 Weeks (Becker & Ninja Audio)

[D]

Great advice here and thanks everyone for the input. I've come up with a plan to discuss it with her tomorrow morning, fingers crossed it goes well. 🙂

@mla1169- Thanks for your input. With regard to your first post, I'm leaning toward that being my plan. I'm going to have a meeting with her tomorrow asap, and just be very professional letting her know I have some things outlined for the week ahead that I'd like her to help with but first I'd like to talk about Friday, and go from there.

I'll compliment her tenure and knowledge, etc., but I'm also going to let her know that if she is going to question me in the future on why I'm doing my job the way I'm doing it, it would be more appropriate in a setting where not all eyes and ears in the office are on both of us. This way we both appear on the same page and it doesn't cause any questions as to whether we truly function as a team.

As for her feeling like the rug has been pulled out from under her.. not likely. She has been talking about retiring for the past couple of years and has prepared everyone for it. She talks about it like “I keep telling our boss that he needs to stop relying on me for so much because if I end up deciding to retire this year he won't know what to do…” Apparently she is part of a pension plan that my company stopped offering many years ago. Each year around Sept our company gives these people who are still around the opportunity to retire by mid 4Q with lump sum pay out. If the rates fluctuate too much and cause her lump sum payout to possibly go down by staying an additional year, then she will decide to retire. She openly discusses it, so if anything she just wants to continue to assert her “dominance” through her end years. I'm not quite sure.

My plan is to confront her about it in a non-threatening manner and just make it more about how I want to ensure we all work as a team and continue to foster that and demonstrate that… etc., this way she doesn't take it like i'm being emotional. I'll tell her I really value her opinion and trust in the advice she gives me,… even with that I'm going to be prepared for the worst.

Afterword I'm going to document our conversation and possibly just run it by my boss as an “FYI, we had this discussion.. everything is good.. but I just wanted to make you aware” in case she brings it up to him and he feels blindsided.

**************************
AUD: 77  (Jan 2016)
BEC: 80  (May 2016)
REG: (rematch May 2017)
FAR: (rematch Apr 2017)
**************************

----------
AUD - 74, 77! (1/2016)
BEC - 80! (5/2016)
REG - tbd (8/2016)
FAR - tbd

Study materials: NINJA MCQ/Audio/Notes

"I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me!"
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[Anonymous]

And if all of this really good advice doesn't work, then you need to be prepared to either find another job or go all Ragin' Cajun on her. mla1169 is spot on with her advice and that is exactly what I would do first. But if that didn't work, then we'd have to have a “come to Jesus” meeting. That's where I'd simply tell her that if she is so “indespensible” then she needs to prove it. I'm sure the company was running before she got there and will continue to run after she's gone.

[Anonymous]

Pull the individual to the side and tell her what's on ur mind. Show respect and express the fact that ur in a leadership position which helps you grow professionally yet also recognize the experience she has. Just be big about it and respectfully confront it head on with her in private. If she refuses to lighten up after you try to be an adult about it then she's got issues and should consider taking it up with supervision. If u do ur part in being an adult about things and she doesn't, it's on her.

[impska]

If it persists after your meeting, you could try:

“That's a good question, Betty, and I would be happy to go over the details with you later on in private, but right now we're discussing X/focusing on X, etc.” Stick to your guns. If she gets belligerent, stare at her silently (hopefully until she becomes uncomfortable), and then say “I understand your concerns Betty. As I said, I will be happy to address them at a more appropriate time.”

“That's a good suggestion, Betty. I agree that we should ‘chase after that.' Everyone's got a pretty full plate right now, so I'm going to need you to pursue that.” Make sure you follow up and ask her how she's progressing.

If she declines to do it, then you say, “Well, if you can't find the time right now, then we'll have to put it on the backburner. Let me know when your schedule frees up.”

I do not agree that you should find a new job. I think that there comes a point in a person's life where they need to learn how to deal with difficult coworkers. If you want people to take you seriously as a leader and have faith in your abilities, you can't run away every time you encounter an unpleasant employee.

REG - 94
BEC - 92
FAR - 92
AUD - 99

[D]

Just wanted to thank everyone for you input.

I had a discussion with her yesterday and it went… ok.

Pulled her aside in a conference room and just told her I wanted to review a few things (things I was delegating to her.. but I didn't tell her that right away), but first a quick discussion about an incident from Friday.

I basically told her a lot of what many of you mentioned… you know, the fluff of “how much I appreciate and value her input and experience” blah blah blah… and carried on to tell her that the way she approached me Friday was in a very accusing manner whether she intended on it or not (..which I know she did), and that it was not the appropriate environment. I also mentioned that I didn't want “our” team to think she and I are not on the same page..

Basically formed it around the fact that my goal is for everyone to function as a team, and if she wants to discuss anything pertaining to my work or why I did something like I did that we should do it in private and she should not question my decisions with my employees present. (especially since she can NEVER tone it down, never is wrong, and is always pointing the finger)

As expected, she didn't apologize. She didn't even acknowledge any wrong. She just agreed and said she thinks we should have those conversations in the break room or conference room (like it was her idea).

At least I got it off my chest and possibly made her realize I'm not going to just sit back and take her senior citizen crap.

Carrying on, after that I delegated something to her that she has never had to touch since being in the group. Which I think was something she had purposely always been avoiding.. just like everything else since I joined the group. (Hey! I figured it would be good for her to get the exposure before she leaves 😉 )

She gave me a lot of push back in the form of questions designed to make me rethink why I'm giving it to her or why we even do the work in the first place. Either way though, its up to me to delegate and delegate I did!

Today I could see a huge difference in the way she interacts with me.. and not in a positive manner. I can tell she's pretty pissed and offended by the way I've chosen to stand up to her and question her experience/authority more.

I'm just going to have to stick it out, stick to my guns, and stay strong…. and hope she retires… tomorrow.

🙂

And in the meantime I'm contemplating letting my boss know about the incident, just as an FYI… but not in a way that he has to take any action. Just letting him know what I delegated, and that I let Betty know that we need to set a good example for the team by taking those conversations elsewhere.

**************************
AUD: 77  (Jan 2016)
BEC: 80  (May 2016)
REG: (rematch May 2017)
FAR: (rematch Apr 2017)
**************************

----------
AUD - 74, 77! (1/2016)
BEC - 80! (5/2016)
REG - tbd (8/2016)
FAR - tbd

Study materials: NINJA MCQ/Audio/Notes

"I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me!"
----------

[Author]

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