[Anonymous]

People who get max per-diem (meals) each day of travel – do you submit receipts specifically for the meals? Also, is the amount unsubstantiated reported on the W-2, if not paid back to the employer?

I am a CPA for a government performing audit (not tax). I receive per-diem for travel meals for less than IRS rate at the maximum for each travel date. The thing is…I do NOT substantiate meal expenses with my bosses, but I always claim the maximum amount. They do not report any on my W-2’s.

Is my employer lacking due diligence in not requiring our receipts, but paying the full amount, and not reporting on our W-2’s? Could they get in trouble, and lead to me being in trouble?

[Anonymous]

The whole purpose of per diem is to offer a reasonable reimbursement based on a fixed rate. You don't claim the maximum, the rate is the rate. And the rates are based on what – the Federal per diem rates – correct. Frankly your question is a bit concerning – do you honestly think your government employer doesn't know how to administer it's travel program?

[Anonymous]

Edit: Thank you for responding. Yes, I think the system is being abused. What should I do?

My employer has been doing allowing this for years, and the employees have each claimed the maximum amount per day without actually spending as much. Most people normally bring their lunch and pocket the difference. This is neither reflected in the W-2 or reimbursed to the employer.

I think this is happening because the government does not claim expenses as a deduction like a business entity, and there is no profit motive.

I'm going to start voluntarily submitting my receipts and claim only what I spend, rather than following their procedures.

[nadroj]

It sound like you don't understand what per diem means.

As far as profit motive, many businesses use per diem reimbursement for meals because it's cheaper than reimbursing actual expenses *plus* paying the overhead costs of administering such.

[Biff-1955-Tannen]

…wut

AUD - 93
BEC - 83
FAR - 83
REG - 84

Nobody calls me chicken

AUD 93 Jan 16
BEC 83 Feb 16
FAR 83 Apr 16
REG 84 May 16

99% Ninja MCQ only

[Anonymous]

@nadroj

Copied from: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/perdiemfaq&a.prn.pdf
Per diem – “Per diem is an allowance paid to your employees for lodging, meals, and incidental expenses incurred when travelling. This allowance is in lieu of paying their actual travel expenses.”

So, I'm supposed to claim the full amount of per diem no matter what?

[Biff-1955-Tannen]

There is no “full” amount, nor is there a “partial” amount. A per diem is a flat rate that eliminates the need for receipts…

AUD - 93
BEC - 83
FAR - 83
REG - 84

Nobody calls me chicken

AUD 93 Jan 16
BEC 83 Feb 16
FAR 83 Apr 16
REG 84 May 16

99% Ninja MCQ only

[Anonymous]

I think I understand –
– claim only to the extent of actual expenses –
– no receipt required –
– no W-2 reporting if done this way

Message back if I didn't get it correct.

Thanks for the help!

[Anonymous]

The federal mileage rate is fixed. If you drive hummer you lose out, if you drive a fuel efficient car you don't. The per-diem is an average based on the costs to eat out at a restaurant for breakfast and dinner (not lunch) while the employee is in travel status. Plus just how much do you think it costs to administer a receipts based travel system? Like I said, your attitude is concerning and I suspect has little to do with a benevolent, respectful, boundaried attitude toward your coworkers and your employer. Human institutions are flawed whether they are public or private.

[Anonymous]

Double Post.

[Anonymous]

@CPA2021 I'm an auditor who does mainly compliance work. I think in terms of right and wrong or white/black, and no gray. Our office is saving time by allowing us to use per diem, but every CPA I work with (including myself) is claiming the maximum allowable for both mileage and meals/incidentals without regard for the mileage actually traveled or meal costs expended.

My main question is whether I needed to change my methodology, or the office needed to change their W-2 reporting. My answer – I need to only request amounts actually expended. I was doing it wrong this entire time.

I appreciate the feedback.

[Anonymous]

@CPAissues:

I've been doing a lot of research into this topic recently, and you actually have a very valid question, regardless of everyone who is jumping on you. 😐 From what I have found in my research so far (granted, this is still under research), reimbursements under an accountable plan don't show up on the W-2 but reimbursements not under an accountable plan are supposed to show up on a W-2. Further, from my research, if you don't submit receipts, that's a non-accountable plan. However, there may be an exception for the per diem; I think I saw something about that, but as my employer doesn't use a per diem, it wasn't relevant to the issue I'd been asked to research and address.

This article: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch01.html#en_US_2015_publink100033779 is a good starting point. Looking it over now, it does reference a “standard meal allowance”, aka per diem. The article is talking in terms of what you can deduct as business-related travel expenses, but the rules for reimbursing employees without it counting as income are generally that if it's deductible, it's reimburseable. Now keep in mind, I'm not a tax accountant, and you'll want to look into everything I'm saying and confirm it for yourself as this is a working hypothesis; this is just what I've found so far in researching meal reimbursements for my employer. However, based on what I'm seeing, it looks like if they're reimbursing you at or below the federal rates, then they're OK to be reimbursing you amounts different than what you're actually spending. They can only reimburse you if you're gone overnight, though. (I think the formal wording is something like “If the work requires substantially more time than an average work day and allows time for a rest period” or something along those lines.)

[Anonymous]

My boss would fire someone for wasting valuable time trying to calculate actual travel expense rather than just using the flat rate. Take the money and get back to work.

[gigabyte2001]

The federal per diem's do allow for a specific amount for breakfast, lunch, dinner and incidental expenses. It is a common, allowable practice (both under IRS regs and Federal Acquisition Regulations) for employees to claim the meals & incidental expenses per diem (M&IE) rather than submit actual receipts. The rules as I understand them for government (and i've worked for a government contractor for 10 years now) if you pay for breakfast/lunch/dinner, you can claim the per diem rate for the meal. They limit you to 75% of the total for first & last day of travel. It is neither unethical nor illegal to do so, even if you spend less than the per diem rate per meal or in total.

AUD - 87
BEC - 78
FAR - 82
REG - 93

.

B - 11/11/16
A - 4/16/16 87!!
R - 2/17/17
F - 7/26/16 - Waiting for 8/23

[Author]

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