[Regular Tax Dude]

Hi Everyone,

I am applying for a position on a firm’s website, it needs me to put 2 professional references, their names and phone #. Do you guys just put “upon request”? It’s not that I don’t have any references, I don’t feel like selling out professional contacts.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

[Mamabear]

I am not sure what you mean by “selling out professional contacts”. It is very common to give two or three professional references so they can find out what type of worker you are. I always ask the contacts if it is okay for them to be contacted before I give their name out. There isn't any harm in putting upon request, but I doubt they are going to use your contacts for anything that the intended purpose.

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[Anonymous]

Call and ask the people if they are willing to serve as a reference for you. Ask them what phone number you should list for them, and let them know who might be contacting them, what kind of position you're applying for, etc.

P.S. Don't ever list anyone as a reference without getting their permission. You only want references who are eager to recommend you, so you need to give them a chance to say whether or not they are willing to vouch for you.

[rp 12]

In my last firm I was let go, but did have a good rapport with my senior from another client. Is it OK to give his name as reference? I have heard that when calling in for reference check they usually only verify the time of employment, and would not ask about performance… Nor the former employer(s) are suppose to disclose it.

What is your take on reference checks? or What is the usual practice?

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[Mamabear]

We cannot give professional references on behalf of the company. If someone calls in for a reference I would transfer them to HR and they would only give dates of services, title, and whether or not they can be rehired. However, I know that I can ask several coworkers and members of upper management to give a reference for me and they would do it. It really depends on the individual you are asking. Some will do it and some will abide by the company policy. I think reference checks are silly because I am not going to put anyone down that wouldn't give me a glowing reference, but it's a standard part of the hiring process for most companies so I just roll with it.

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[Anonymous]

If a hiring manager contacts your former employer, they are usually only verifying what you've put on your resume to make sure you aren't lying about your work experience. They generally know that most companies these days have CYA policies in place regarding what to say and not say during a reference check, so they aren't typically expecting or even asking for a full description of your work ethic.

The laws vary from state to state regarding what potential employers are allowed to ask former employers and what former employers are allowed to disclose, but that is why many companies now ask for references other than former employers. I have been asked to submit names of former co-workers or supervisors who are free to discuss my work product, i.e. they no longer work at my former company and are no longer subject to company policy about reference checks. Of course, this is all at my option. But if I am not willing to list a single person from my work history who can speak to my competency, I'm basically saying “Don't hire me,” either because I have something to hide or because I am incapable of forming and maintaining professional relationships.

[Anonymous]

“They generally know that most companies these days have CYA policies in place regarding what to say and not say during a reference check, so they aren't typically expecting or even asking for a full description of your work ethic.”

I wouldn't say most. There is a difference in employment verification (dates, pay…etc.) and having someone listed as a professional reference. If you list someone as a professional reference, you are going out of your way to say that this person is willing and able to say great things about me.

1. The company you are applying to, will likely call every or the most recent employers for employment verification –> generally these get directed to HR and company policy will limit what is disclosed.

2. The company will also call your professional references. If you give them your senior or manager's contact info/name, they most likely will discuss performance. That's why you had them listed as a reference. If you list your senior as a reference, the company you are applying at will expect that you've gotten his/her okay to list them and that they are willing to talk performance and will say good things. If that is not the case, don't list them. Some companies have policies about what is allowed to be disclosed during these as well – but they are routinely ignored (if you had a hard worker on your team, you will say good things) and/or not communicated (especially to Seniors).

“I am applying for a position on a firm's website, it needs me to put 2 professional references, their names and phone #. Do you guys just put “upon request”? It's not that I don't have any references, I don't feel like selling out professional contacts. “

hmm, I wouldn't be too concerned if you are applying on a company website. You got your references permission, so go ahead and list them. I'd only be concerned if you were giving their contact info to a Recruiting company (some recruiting companies do perform reference checks on behalf of their clients but they should only ask for this info very late in the game when you are close to having the offer in hand).

“I think reference checks are silly because I am not going to put anyone down that wouldn't give me a glowing reference, but it's a standard part of the hiring process for most companies so I just roll with it. “

Agreed. Reference checks are silly IMO but can be very important under certain circumstances (i.e. you have a GAP but left on your own accord or to reasons other than poor performance and your former senior and manager at your prior employer are willing to speak to your strong performance can do wonders).

[Anonymous]

wonder how to handle references when I've been self employed for over 14 years! Not even sure if my last boss is still alive – he was laid off 6 months before I left… What would you do?

[Mamabear]

I would put clients as professional references. Professional references are anyone that can vouch for how you work, not necessarily a boss.

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[Anonymous]

I had one application (I think it was the State Govt one) that asked for professional references, then for references which weren't related to you and with whom you'd never worked. For me, that one was difficult. I live in a very small town in the Bible Belt where pretty much the only social activities are church or kids activities (community sports teams and such), and I'm not a church person nor do I have kids. So, that means the only place I get to know people is through work. (We moved here after I was out of highschool, so I didn't get to know people through school, and I did my college stuff out-of-town and online – out-of-town friendships don't seem to last too well for me.) I think the goal of this reference request was to ensure they had people they could contact who weren't bound by employer policy to only say “Yes she worked here”, but it was still a unique request to me.

To answer the OP, though, I wouldn't put “Upon request”. They're asking for them, so that *is* the request. The likelihood of them selling the contacts is very low (may even be legally protected, since your application is part of your HR file) – I'd think the likelihood of someone reviewing the application seeing that and thinking you'll be a pain to work with is higher. Not saying it's high, or that you would be a pain to work with, but I think there's a possibility of it being seen that way and very low possibility of it being used inappropriately.

[Author]

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