[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I am a staff 1 at a big 4. I have been here for about 8 months and I am slowly but surely getting fed up with the nonsense that has become the big 4 culture. My problem with it is being mainly on one client that is known as the problem client from my office.The vast majority of the original team is gone (left for industry). I am tired of being the one looked at for all the tasks that the seniors or the managers don’t want to do. I am all for putting in your time but there is no appreciation for anything that staff 1’s do (getting dinner for the team, printing hundreds of pages for the managers etc.) I also feel like so much of the big 4 is focused on control work that actual accounting is not there so much anymore. during busy season and quarters we easily work 80+ hours and at times it feels like the audit room is like a morgue (all business, talking to one another is frowned upon). overall, I feel like the big 4 culture is what it is and I basically am tired of it. I no longer have any time to relax or study for the cpa exam. I apologize for this coming off as complaining, as I don’t intend it to. My question to all of you is, has anyone else at the big 4 felt like this? did you move to a small firm or go to industry? its frustrating because the stress that comes from my job doesn’t really have to be there. And just to add a disclaimer to all the students looking at the big 4, it is not always like this. I think it really depends on the client you get put on. I know many people who love their job at the big 4.

[Anonymous]

I haven't worked Big 4 because a) there's not one near me and b) I didn't want to put up with that sort of crap. 😛 But I have seen plenty of posts from others saying similar things, so I don't think you're alone! A couple thoughts though as I was reading it:

– If you think that this is largely due to the client that you're on, do you think that there is potential of being on a different client in the future and that if you were then you would like the job more? Is it worth holding on for that?

– “I also feel like so much of the big 4 is focused on control work that actual accounting is not there so much anymore.” I personally think there has been a huge shift in what accounting is over the past several years and that it has caused a lot of accounting jobs to be less accounting and more various other things (controls, customer service, documentation, ,etc.), so you might find this in your next job as well.

– “I have been here for about 8 months…” Not sure how soon you were looking at making a move, but if you can stick it out for another 4 months, that should help your job prospects immensely!

– When you're ready to leave, try talking to someone (your boss probably? I don't know the Big 4 corporate structure that well) to see if you can get the reassignments and changes that would make you happy to stay longer – like new client or changed title or whatever it would be. I wouldn't due this till you're ready to leave, since it may make them upset, but it's worth a try at least!

– The cleaning guy at our office (I'm in private accounting) is a big gossip, and one day when he was talking about people in the various production rooms, I asked him what he said about our office (accounting)…and he said “There's nothing to say – it's like a morgue in here!” So, your morgue description made me laugh. We have our very non-morgue times, too, though, and that seems to be what lacks in Big 4.

[Anonymous]

I haven't worked Big 4 because a) there's not one near me and b) I didn't want to put up with that sort of crap. 😛 But I have seen plenty of posts from others saying similar things, so I don't think you're alone! A couple thoughts though as I was reading it:

– If you think that this is largely due to the client that you're on, do you think that there is potential of being on a different client in the future and that if you were then you would like the job more? Is it worth holding on for that?

– “I also feel like so much of the big 4 is focused on control work that actual accounting is not there so much anymore.” I personally think there has been a huge shift in what accounting is over the past several years and that it has caused a lot of accounting jobs to be less accounting and more various other things (controls, customer service, documentation, ,etc.), so you might find this in your next job as well.

– “I have been here for about 8 months…” Not sure how soon you were looking at making a move, but if you can stick it out for another 4 months, that should help your job prospects immensely!

– When you're ready to leave, try talking to someone (your boss probably? I don't know the Big 4 corporate structure that well) to see if you can get the reassignments and changes that would make you happy to stay longer – like new client or changed title or whatever it would be. I wouldn't due this till you're ready to leave, since it may make them upset, but it's worth a try at least!

– The cleaning guy at our office (I'm in private accounting) is a big gossip, and one day when he was talking about people in the various production rooms, I asked him what he said about our office (accounting)…and he said “There's nothing to say – it's like a morgue in here!” So, your morgue description made me laugh. We have our very non-morgue times, too, though, and that seems to be what lacks in Big 4.

[wannabeCPA123]

Sounds like you have a bad team. We have all kinds of fun on my team. Team lunches. We have mandatory walk around the parking lot (it's pretty big), where we joke and play games with each other. On late nights, we sort joke around around every hour as a break. Yet, we still get the work done on time.

FAR 78
REG 87
BEC 78
AUD 78
Passed all exams on first try! Good luck to everyone!

[wannabeCPA123]

Sounds like you have a bad team. We have all kinds of fun on my team. Team lunches. We have mandatory walk around the parking lot (it's pretty big), where we joke and play games with each other. On late nights, we sort joke around around every hour as a break. Yet, we still get the work done on time.

FAR 78
REG 87
BEC 78
AUD 78
Passed all exams on first try! Good luck to everyone!

[Amay]

I quit the big 4 right before my 2-year anniversary and left to a mid-sized firm. A year after that I moved to a smaller/local firm. This is where I am happiest! Less people = less politics = less “busy work.” You also feel much more valued as an employee, not to mention the flexibility, which is priceless! Oh, and no controls work at smaller firms 🙂

BEC: 73, 81
AUD: 85
FAR: 71, 77
REG: 74, 75...finally DONE! 😀

*This is my 2nd attempt at the CPA exam. For all of you who have failed this exam many times, given up on it, or taken a break like me, remember that it is still possible to finish what you started...failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently 🙂

[Amay]

I quit the big 4 right before my 2-year anniversary and left to a mid-sized firm. A year after that I moved to a smaller/local firm. This is where I am happiest! Less people = less politics = less “busy work.” You also feel much more valued as an employee, not to mention the flexibility, which is priceless! Oh, and no controls work at smaller firms 🙂

BEC: 73, 81
AUD: 85
FAR: 71, 77
REG: 74, 75...finally DONE! 😀

*This is my 2nd attempt at the CPA exam. For all of you who have failed this exam many times, given up on it, or taken a break like me, remember that it is still possible to finish what you started...failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently 🙂

[GSU-CPA]

This is why i am doing my CPA exam before even applying to big 4.

I just cant even phantom working 60-80 hrs a week then studying for this exam.

REG-77
BEC -Waiting on score May 5th
AUD - May 30
FAR - Q3 depending on if i pass above two in Q2

[GSU-CPA]

This is why i am doing my CPA exam before even applying to big 4.

I just cant even phantom working 60-80 hrs a week then studying for this exam.

REG-77
BEC -Waiting on score May 5th
AUD - May 30
FAR - Q3 depending on if i pass above two in Q2

[iddyrashy]

I never work in public accounting, however I deal with public accountant in very regular basis. I made a spectacular career in short period of time, however there is something that I total missed, the documentation experience that you only earn if you work in public accounting.

To my opinion, just hang in there. Give two more years, then leave. For now you need them more than they need you, so keep up with them.

AUD 89 (07/06/14)
REG 83 (08/27/2015)
FAR 78 (04/27/2015)
BEC 75 (11/13/2015)

TEXAS 2016

[iddyrashy]

I never work in public accounting, however I deal with public accountant in very regular basis. I made a spectacular career in short period of time, however there is something that I total missed, the documentation experience that you only earn if you work in public accounting.

To my opinion, just hang in there. Give two more years, then leave. For now you need them more than they need you, so keep up with them.

AUD 89 (07/06/14)
REG 83 (08/27/2015)
FAR 78 (04/27/2015)
BEC 75 (11/13/2015)

TEXAS 2016

[Mayo]

@All-In, to me it just sounds like you're in a situation that doesn't fit you or your career goals. It might be a bad fit in terms of the firm, big 4 in general, office, or just a crappy team overall like someone else mentioned.

Here are a few suggestions that you might consider:

1. Talk to your coach/mentor and talk about your concerns. They'll at least be able to give you some perspective on what you're going through. Also, if any changes need to be made then they are the person to help initiate that.

Just make sure you stay away from all out complaining about the client or the team specifically. I'd frame it as something that you just don't think is a good fit for your career goals or just say you'd like to experience a bigger/smaller team. Just realize that our world is small and the people you're complaining about might be your coach/mentor's best friends.

2. Don't like control work? That's an easy fix. Get private clients. Financial Services (mutual funds, hedge funds, and private equity come to mind; From what i heard about Banking it is regulation overload) has plenty of these as does Real Estate industry. Many times you'll get fully substantive audits where only walkthroughs and no TOCs are performed. Regardless, private clients are often small enough where a first year Staff can definitely contribute quite a bit and take ownership of specific areas beyond cash and AR.

For example, my first year I worked on Cash, AR, AP, Investments, Derivatives, Goodwill, Revenue and Expense testing, etc. That was only possible due to having smaller clients

3. This isn't a steadfast rule. But just consider that any significant change in your schedule can be disruptive in terms of the team you're leaving and the one you're joining. My point is that if you ask for a change now, just understand that's probably the only mulligan you'll get until you hit your first or second Senior year. Of course, if you're a high performer and are top rated this is less a rule and more of a guideline..

4. Tasks like getting dinner, making copies, etc. seem and are very mundane. Don't take it as a reflection on how important and appreciated these tasks are. As a Senior I really depend on my Staff to take on these tasks, that while easy and mind numbing, I just do not have the time to do myself. Ditto for the Managers. As cheesy as it sounds, I'd embrace these tasks and make sure to do them well and with a great attitude. If you want more challenging tasks then I say go ahead and ask for them specifically.

5. Sometimes your teams are what you make them. Feel like there's less interaction than you'd like? Suggest a Sporcle break twice a day or something. But if your team is just dull then they are just dull. My point is that at least try and make it less so before giving up.

Personally, I think most of the complaints you have center around having a crappy situation with your team and client. There's nothing worse than busting your butt and sacrificing a lot of your life if the people you work with have the personalities of a wooden nickel and your clients couldn't account their way out of a paper bag. You'd be surprised how easy a 70-80 hr week can feel when the team is a good fit and the client is helpful/competent.

Finally, you might just be suffering from post busy season blues. I'm always burnt out a month or two after busy seasons and it takes me that long to feel like myself and remember why I like my job to begin with.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Mayo]

@All-In, to me it just sounds like you're in a situation that doesn't fit you or your career goals. It might be a bad fit in terms of the firm, big 4 in general, office, or just a crappy team overall like someone else mentioned.

Here are a few suggestions that you might consider:

1. Talk to your coach/mentor and talk about your concerns. They'll at least be able to give you some perspective on what you're going through. Also, if any changes need to be made then they are the person to help initiate that.

Just make sure you stay away from all out complaining about the client or the team specifically. I'd frame it as something that you just don't think is a good fit for your career goals or just say you'd like to experience a bigger/smaller team. Just realize that our world is small and the people you're complaining about might be your coach/mentor's best friends.

2. Don't like control work? That's an easy fix. Get private clients. Financial Services (mutual funds, hedge funds, and private equity come to mind; From what i heard about Banking it is regulation overload) has plenty of these as does Real Estate industry. Many times you'll get fully substantive audits where only walkthroughs and no TOCs are performed. Regardless, private clients are often small enough where a first year Staff can definitely contribute quite a bit and take ownership of specific areas beyond cash and AR.

For example, my first year I worked on Cash, AR, AP, Investments, Derivatives, Goodwill, Revenue and Expense testing, etc. That was only possible due to having smaller clients

3. This isn't a steadfast rule. But just consider that any significant change in your schedule can be disruptive in terms of the team you're leaving and the one you're joining. My point is that if you ask for a change now, just understand that's probably the only mulligan you'll get until you hit your first or second Senior year. Of course, if you're a high performer and are top rated this is less a rule and more of a guideline..

4. Tasks like getting dinner, making copies, etc. seem and are very mundane. Don't take it as a reflection on how important and appreciated these tasks are. As a Senior I really depend on my Staff to take on these tasks, that while easy and mind numbing, I just do not have the time to do myself. Ditto for the Managers. As cheesy as it sounds, I'd embrace these tasks and make sure to do them well and with a great attitude. If you want more challenging tasks then I say go ahead and ask for them specifically.

5. Sometimes your teams are what you make them. Feel like there's less interaction than you'd like? Suggest a Sporcle break twice a day or something. But if your team is just dull then they are just dull. My point is that at least try and make it less so before giving up.

Personally, I think most of the complaints you have center around having a crappy situation with your team and client. There's nothing worse than busting your butt and sacrificing a lot of your life if the people you work with have the personalities of a wooden nickel and your clients couldn't account their way out of a paper bag. You'd be surprised how easy a 70-80 hr week can feel when the team is a good fit and the client is helpful/competent.

Finally, you might just be suffering from post busy season blues. I'm always burnt out a month or two after busy seasons and it takes me that long to feel like myself and remember why I like my job to begin with.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[fuzyfro89]

Welcome to corporate life. You will work with people you love being around, some that you can't stand, and others that are just so plan vanilla that you would rather hang out with Milton from Office Space.

It is part of the working world. You have to find a way to cope with different personalities all the time. However, the best way to handle it is like MAYO mentioned. Try and get some non-control related work on your current client, try and see if you can get more variety in your schedule to balance it out and get some new experience, BUT don't come across as a complainer. Frame it as “I'm really interested in trying out XX industry or XX company size and think it would nicely complement my current schedule…blah blah blah”. Also, it may take some time. Don't expect your schedule to switch up immediatelly just because you aren't happy at the moment.

Have I been in this situation:

Yes, I left Big 4 in part because I didn't see myself in accounting in the medium term and in part because of a particular manager that I spent over half my time with and did not enjoy working for. The real reason I wasn't happy was the work itself, but this was made worse and the unhappiness was exacerbated by working for a…. let's just say not-so-nice sr mgr.

What did I do:

I left, but not just because of the mgr I didn't want to be with forever. I went into industry as an internal audit consultant, and the work is much better. Some controls, but not much at all. Mostly helping the controller's team with a little SOX around year-end and a little during interim (probably <1 month of the yr). The rest is consultative/project based “audits” of different subsidiaries/functions/etc. Much more interesting, and much better pay.

I do miss the Big 4 social aspect in terms of being around lots of people my age and stage of life, but that just means I need to learn how to make friends on my own, haha. 🙂

To sum it up:

Try and be positive and learn to cope. At the same time, start networking internally so you can get some more mix in your schedule. If a year goes by and nothing has changed, switch to another Big 4. I came very close to making a lateral move to another Big 4 before changing my mind and going to industry.

[fuzyfro89]

Welcome to corporate life. You will work with people you love being around, some that you can't stand, and others that are just so plan vanilla that you would rather hang out with Milton from Office Space.

It is part of the working world. You have to find a way to cope with different personalities all the time. However, the best way to handle it is like MAYO mentioned. Try and get some non-control related work on your current client, try and see if you can get more variety in your schedule to balance it out and get some new experience, BUT don't come across as a complainer. Frame it as “I'm really interested in trying out XX industry or XX company size and think it would nicely complement my current schedule…blah blah blah”. Also, it may take some time. Don't expect your schedule to switch up immediatelly just because you aren't happy at the moment.

Have I been in this situation:

Yes, I left Big 4 in part because I didn't see myself in accounting in the medium term and in part because of a particular manager that I spent over half my time with and did not enjoy working for. The real reason I wasn't happy was the work itself, but this was made worse and the unhappiness was exacerbated by working for a…. let's just say not-so-nice sr mgr.

What did I do:

I left, but not just because of the mgr I didn't want to be with forever. I went into industry as an internal audit consultant, and the work is much better. Some controls, but not much at all. Mostly helping the controller's team with a little SOX around year-end and a little during interim (probably <1 month of the yr). The rest is consultative/project based “audits” of different subsidiaries/functions/etc. Much more interesting, and much better pay.

I do miss the Big 4 social aspect in terms of being around lots of people my age and stage of life, but that just means I need to learn how to make friends on my own, haha. 🙂

To sum it up:

Try and be positive and learn to cope. At the same time, start networking internally so you can get some more mix in your schedule. If a year goes by and nothing has changed, switch to another Big 4. I came very close to making a lateral move to another Big 4 before changing my mind and going to industry.

[Mayo]

” If a year goes by and nothing has changed, switch to another Big 4″

I always wonder how people do this. I mean, what do you tell the recruiter a Big 4 #2?

PWC > KPMG? I see myself as an orange and red person rather than a blue person? It's like everyone at my firm is a Vampire, and I'm a werewolf?

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Author]

Replies