[Anonymous]

So, I belong to a Jeep forum, and a really nice guy on there is in his second year of accounting. I told him I’d gladly offer advice and answer any questions, and he asked for any pieces of advice I could provide. It turned out to be pretty lengthy, and I thought maybe it’d help to post it here for all of the students that are on another71. It’s not polished or anything, so don’t be too harsh – I think there’s some good content in here.

Couple of quick tips…

1) Get involved with the professors at school and professional organizations. I had OASIS (Oakland Accounting Students Information Socity) – they had weekly lunch meetings and had speakers come in. Great way to meet people at local firms. Also, we had Beta Alpha Psi – my grades weren’t good enough to join, wish I could have.

2) Grades are critical! If you’re below a 3.2 (sometimes a 3.4), you are basically blocked from Big 4 recruiting. Sucks, but it’s the truth.

3) It gets harder – you have the right attitude. Accounting is no joke. Entry level classes are a joke (or, they were for me). I thought I was a natural, amazing accountant. As a result, I failed both of my intermediate financial accounting classes. Don’t get cocky – it gets hard and will bite you on the ass before you can correct it.

3) Be tenacious – gotta give it your all, don’t give up. Be confident, but not cocky. Be bold. Be professional at all times. Put in the work – work hard, overproduce, always turn in polished work. Never a draft, even if it is a draft – it should look polished. Don’t take no for an answer – pursue internships and jobs until you’re confident you’ve annoyed them enough that there’s no chance they’ll give it to you.

4) NETWORK – get involved with classmates. I used to think “I’ll network once I get into a career”…first, networking will get you through the tough classes. I wouldn’t have passed without help from my classmates. Secondly, right after graduation, those people ARE in careers. The only reason I am in Big 4 is because of my networking in college – someone I hardly knew (just an aquaintance) got me in.

5) INTERNSHIP!!!!!! – THE MOST CRITICAL ONE!!!!! If you’re second year now, start pounding on doors, making calls, going to career fairs. YOU WANT A BIG 4 INTERNSHIP – even if you don’t go Big 4. I thought I didn’t know enough and would have to get one my Sr. year. If you’re not applying now, it’s too late. Ideally, you want to apply in your second year…if not, early third year at the latest, otherwise you have a good chance of being passed up – “No worries, you’re too close to graduating – call us when you’re done, we’d be glad to hire you”…if you hear this, it’s BULLSHIT – I heard it many times and was totally unhirable.

Here’s my story –

Spent 4 years floundering in engineering. Fall semester 4th year dropped it all and went into accounting. Also worked full time to pay for school. First mistake was the bad GPA from engineering. Second was working too much – couldn’t dedicate enough time to school and accounting grades were mundane at best. Third mistake – thinking an internship should happen later on, like Jr/Sr year. Fourth mistake – not actively pursuing an internship due to having a decent job to pay for school – graduating with no accounting experince hurt me hardcore.

So, I graduated with a whopping 2.89 GPA. Couldn’t get a job in public – Big 4, big regional, small firm. Nothing. Ended up (again, networking – guy in a local car club) getting a job as a Medicare auditor. Decent gig, 8 hours a day, OK pay. Got me accounting experience. Worked there a total of three years before jumping to Big 4.

While I was at the auditor job, I got my MBA – plan was to overwrite the poor undergrad GPA. I also started pursuing my CIA – Certified Internal Auditor. It’s cheaper and easier than a CPA – I figured getting this would help me to land a public job. Both of these were critical to getting into a Big 4 firm.

Last semester of my MBA, I bumped into the aquaintance I mentioned – knew her from undergrad. She was at my school giving a presentation on the firm. She casually mentioned that they were hiring and gave me her card. I e-mailed her that night and ferociously pursused it. Took 3 months but finally got my foot in the door.

Not to toot my own horn, but I am performing very well at my firm. Have been there two years, and have gotten a few bonuses and been double promoted. Both are very rare to get. I work hard, but not excessively – 45-50 hours a week is typical. I get paid fairly decently and have hopes of growing that salary rapidly over the next few years. Also, I am on a large global client and have been actively pursued by them for job – we were talking $90k range with really good benefits – not too shabby for a 29-year-old. So, the hard work will pay off, you just have to keep up with it. I had to take a 5 year detour to land here. I am sort of “behind” in my career in the fact that I am the same age (or older in some cases) than my managers. Hopefully hearing some of this advice will help someone along their road.

And, if you think I am full of it, that’s fine too. I am just a poor wanna-be CPA making a living. I’ll be able to formally apply for my license at the end of the month! Woot!

[italianCPA]

And I would add…..never burn bridges behind you.

My first boss in the US, who was giving me a whopping $28.8k/year salary (in NYC!), basically got me my first 6-figure job two years after I left his Company. A headhunter asked him if he knew somebody for this position and he recommended me and I ended up getting the job.

FAR - 7/26/10 - 95
AUD - 8/10/10 - 88
BEC - 8/31/10 - 88
REG - 10/15/10 - 95

[financeguy]

I would add: Don't take out student loans. Many students are graduating these days w/ so much debt that their degree will never pay off.

There are many worthless and incompetent people who end up w/ great jobs because they know how to BS their way into them, but I do believe that hard work will always eventually pay off.

AUD - 81, BEC - 74, 80, FAR - 82, REG - 81
Done!

[Anonymous]

One more thing – you never know when the next big opportunity will come from

Whatever assignment you are asked to do – do it well – sometimes it can lead to a great opportunity. Working on a fraud examination once – my task was to analyze about 18 mos of credit card statements & receipts. Went beyond what was asked of me, had a couple of good findings and a few months later was recommended for a rather nice assignment with a great team.

[joohj1187]

If you do want to get into a Big 4, an internship definitely helps, but isn't absolutely essential. I did do an internship with Johnson & Johnson my sophomore year and then had NOTHING during my junior year. I got scared I'd get nothing after graduation so I applied to pretty much every single accounting firm w/ full time jobs. I somehow landed a tax position w/ E&Y.

So, my two cents, work on your interview skills. The only way to do so is by DOING MORE INTERVIEWS. Hone your answers and think of good answers to make yourself stand out from others. While a good GPA and flashy interviews are great, if you come off like an know-it-all douche, the interviewers won't think too highly of you. After all, they'll be working with you once you get on board…

FAR: 8/5/2010 - 89
AUD: 8/24/2010 - 92
REG: 10/11/2010 - 94!!
BEC: 11/30/2010

[Anonymous]

jooh – agreed it's not essential, but it sure helps a ton. I couldn't get in at all right out of school – took me three years. So, yes, I made it without an internship, but in retrospect, it's the #1 recommendation I can give. If you don't screw up you're almost guaranteed a position when you graduate.

[potatogun]

Most students don't start early enough in the recruiting process. So if you're involved where you can shoot for an internship, do it.

Big4 recruit from their internship class first for their future hiring. As Atrus said you're pretty much guaranteed a job afterwards. In my internship class I only knew 2 people in assurance (out of about 50) that didn't get job offers.

Now it isn't necessary to intern, but keep in mind the full time hiring has gotten a lot more competitive. Big4 are hiring less people and students are more likely to accept their full time offers from their internships.

Network early but it is never too late to start.

FAR 92 - AUD 91 - REG 94 - BEC 86

[Anonymous]

“Back in the day” when I was a Graphic Communications major, we were required to do 2 semesters of internships in order to graduate. We got paid about double minimum wage and were almost always guaranteed a good job upon graduation.

I find it odd that accounting majors do not have to intern and if they do, they do it for free. A woman I know is paying a CPA in town to let her daughter work for him. Is that the norm for accounting majors?

[potatogun]

I have not seen any accounting internships that are unpaid. To do any real work and be unpaid is illegal on the firm's part.

And you're never guaranteed anything…

FAR 92 - AUD 91 - REG 94 - BEC 86

[Anonymous]

Well, I shouldn't make a blanket statement of “guaranteed”, but everyone I graduated with at the time had great offers. I immediately took a gov't job that was a horrible experience and ended up switching back to a company I interned with and stayed there 15 years.

I hope interns get paid no matter what they do. Experience is valuable, even if it is the mailroom. When I went back to get my accounting degree, I was shocked internships were not part of our program. They didn't push it at all at my university. Maybe it's where I live, but the CPAs around here know people are hungry for experience under a CPA and they pay very little, if at all, because they can.

[potatogun]

Depends if you're talking about a local CPA or an internship program from a big firm. Big4 internships are quite well compensated, as are most good internships from large companies.

And some schools do offer credit for internships if it isn't required. It just varies.

FAR 92 - AUD 91 - REG 94 - BEC 86

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah – there are no Big 4s around here. I am talking about the small, private CPAs.

If I ever pass the exam, I don't know where I will get my experience. I don't work for a CPA.

[Author]

Replies