Accounting careers and poor performance reviews

CPA Exam Forum Accounting Careers & Designations Accounting Careers (Public/Private/Industry) Accounting careers and poor performance reviews

This topic contains 94 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by BrickellCPA BrickellCPA 1 month, 1 week ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 95 total)
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  • #1479528

    rb2017
    Participant

    lol what even is this thread. If you’re getting bad reviews just for the hell of it, you work for a shitty firm.
    Get hired, get tons of review points, fix them and learn from them and get a good review.
    I see no logic whatsoever in giving poor evaluations regardless if the employee was bad or not. Stop playing the victim – people are telling you what they experience at their firms and you’re telling virtually everyone who responded to you that they’re wrong.


    No need to worry, my accountant handles that.
    AUD - 77
    BEC - 71
    FAR - 75
    REG - 77
    #1479535
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    Wish I could say the same. Wonder why my experience as well as many others has been different then. It is definitely not competence or efficiency or even accounting related and it’s not difficult to communicate or ask questions if I need something clarified.

    Those are all basic things that would be easy to admit if it were an issue, but it’s not considering I am typically in the position to train and motivate others.

    I have heard the perspective that some firms give more individualistic training based on your personality and that a tactic used is to be more tough on your best employees. This practice is not uncommon considering it’s a technique used in the military as well as in sports to develop a more strong and capable leader, etc.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479537

    dankpsu
    Participant

    @Toni – On point. I think the op is struggling and trying to get people to agree that the system sucks. Unfortunately his limited experience in the corporate world hasn’t been good and he’s in a bad situation. If anything, this should be motivation for those struggling and realize there’s good opportunity available to be successful and happy if you put yourself in a position to succeed.

    #1479546
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    You have to honestly ask yourselves if you really have what it takes to be successful? Ask yourselves what is the difference between someone who becomes Partner or CFO and a person who is made to just be an accountant?

    I don’t think being babied and coddled your entire career is in the formula that creates a great leader. But I suppose my opinion doesn’t matter any longer here does it… Perhaps I have unintentionally offended one too many people so all my points and perfectly sound reasoning are now invalid? 😉


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479550

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    Please don’t waste your time and our time asking “if you really have what it takes to be successful”. Success has no finite definition. Some people use salary to define success, some people use net worth to define success, some people believe success is making decisions to affect the world they won’t live to see.

    Your OP assumes that everyone receives negative reviews no matter how hard they work. Do you not see the fault in this logic? Do you not see how unsound your reasoning is?

    Unless you are perfect at your job you will always have suggestions on things to improve on during reviews. Just because one receives constructive criticism doesn’t equate to a poor performance review.

    #1479567
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    That’s your perspective @nyscpa

    I ask questions and respond in the manner I do because it’s effective in generating responses. I think the auditors who have received exceptional training and experience understand what I’m talking about. Not the ones who are babied in their performance reviews and expected to follow a checklist like a robot.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479571

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    Well Your question wasn’t so effective in generating responses this time around.

    You might want to work on that. Since you “think the auditors who have received exceptional training and experience understand what I’m talking about” maybe you should have specified that your question was geared toward “auditors who have received exceptional training and experience”.

    Since most people that are responding haven’t had your experience of shit performance reviews they are “babied and expected to follow a checklist like a robot” Really? You obviously have some issues you need to work out.

    #1479573
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    Actually it did go well. I’d say the threads I have posted are very fruitful and filled with excellent information. The unfortunate part are the people who become offended and derail the thread instead of building on the discussion, but those people will eventually mature and hopefully develop a more critical mind moving forward.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479576

    ruggercpa2b
    Participant

    If you receive exceptional experience and training then you are most likely going to get good performance reviews. How is getting a good review because you are doing your job well mean you are being coddled and babied. So only if you get a bad review then you are destined for success? How does that even make sense.

    #1479577

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    Curious what you guys think about working in the accounting industry and receiving poor performance reviews?

    Regardless how hard you work, most firms will give you a poor performance review and focus on the areas you didn’t do well rather than praise you for what you did right.

    What are your ideas and theories on why many companies do this and do you agree/disagree with this practice? I have my ideas, curious about yours.

    1) “Most firms” – what firms are you talking about exactly?

    2) “poor performance review and focus on the areas you didn’t do well rather than praise you for what you did right.” – Being told what you need to improve upon does not equate to a poor performance review. If it does to YOU you need to evaluate that for yourself. – We are paid to perform a service. Presumably, we know what we are doing and it is expected of us to do it right. Therefore, there is no need for praise for what we do right. Every now and again my boss will put “Great Job” on his review notes for returns I have prepared. I like this because it is some recognition outside of pay increases and higher bonuses. But this is not necessary.

    3)”What are your ideas and theories on why many companies do this and do you agree/disagree with this practice? I have my ideas, curious about yours.” – Any company that intentionally keeps staff at a level below their potential is disgusting. Other than trying to hire more junior level staff at lower salaries there is not logical reason for doing that.

    #1479579

    dankpsu
    Participant

    Op lost me. I don’t know what his point is besides trolling. His “Sound reasoning” explains why he’s probably struggling in public.

    #1479586
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    I’ve already addressed all these questions in my previous posts, except you guys were too busy being offended and defending yourselves.

    Accounting is accounting, an audit is an audit. But what good public accounting firms do in addition to technical training is interpersonal and leadership development training as well.

    Some people do not take criticism very well, it is quite apparent in the feedback I see in this thread. I am not sure how anyone expects to be a great leader if they cannot take criticism. But perhaps your aspirations are to be an accountant forever, and if that is the case, then perhaps you do not receive any special training and instead receive a more generic brand of training and performance review. That is like going to work everyday and keeping the blinders on.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479588

    rb2017
    Participant

    Receiving criticism does not mean “poor review” though. Anyone with common sense knows that new staff will not get everything right the first time. I got plenty of constructive criticism when I started out but I never felt like I was doing poorly at my job. I’m sorry if that’s how you feel at your job.


    No need to worry, my accountant handles that.
    AUD - 77
    BEC - 71
    FAR - 75
    REG - 77
    #1479591
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    @Toni “Receiving criticism does not mean “poor review” though.”

    In the best learning environments, perhaps it does. Rarely have I ever been praised for doing a good job or told what I was doing right in a review. At the firms I’ve worked for, doing the right thing is simply just expected of you. I’ve never mentioned I felt bad or think that I’m doing a bad job. I know the type of experience I have been receiving compared to my co-workers and I have no doubt in my ability to perform.

    My point is that at firms that are conscious enough to provide individual training to their employees, one person may receive different type of training than their co-worker based on their personality.

    I have taken personality assessments for work including the Predictive Index assessment which tells the employer much about my preferred working environment and management style, etc. Not sure to what extent other firms do specialized training in this regard, but it doesn’t seem like many firms do based on the responses here.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479592

    Christopher
    Participant

    @brickell Good job blaming everyone else for your childish behavior. If you aren’t a troll, you should really seek help. This isn’t the place to start trouble. Have you ever heard of Facebook?


    AUD - 81, Wiley

    BEC - 77, Wiley

    FAR - 76, Ninja

    REG - 69, Wiley, 70, Wiley, 88, Wiley/Ninja MCQ

    #1479598
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    @christopher Why are you offended? I have simply been respectfully responding with my perspective to your questions. If you are not comfortable sharing your perspective and receiving honest feedback from others, then please kindly remove yourself from the discussion. That is exactly the entitled and coddled mentality that poorly developed leaders portray.

    This is a question regarding accounting careers posted in the career section of a discussion board. I have already addressed this. Your post serves no purpose other than to derail the discussion because you are offended at a bit of criticism. In my opinion, that is childish.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479603

    rb2017
    Participant

    I agree, criticism is rarely positive – If I got a dollar for every time I got a pat on the back for doing my job I’d maybe have $2. If you are given a “poor” evaluation, in my book that means you’re consistently making the same mistakes. There’s a difference between being told you’re doing poorly and being told there are areas to improve in. You asked what our thoughts are on this subject – those are my thoughts.
    You don’t have to agree with me or anyone else but you should see where we are coming from. I see where you are coming from – however I’ve watched way too many stupid reality shows with people explaining they had a strict military dad which resulted in them being some insecure person thinking they’ll never be good enough. If I were a manager, I would definitely not mentor staff that way. 🙂


    No need to worry, my accountant handles that.
    AUD - 77
    BEC - 71
    FAR - 75
    REG - 77
    #1479612
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    Ok thanks Toni, I understand your perspective as well and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately others are a bit more sensitive and defensive about my perspective although I am simply responding to their questions and not trolling.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479616

    Christopher
    Participant

    @brickell I and others initially answered your question- only to be attacked personally with passive aggressive and stupid assumptions. Spare me the dramatics and acknowledge your behavior.


    AUD - 81, Wiley

    BEC - 77, Wiley

    FAR - 76, Ninja

    REG - 69, Wiley, 70, Wiley, 88, Wiley/Ninja MCQ

    #1479621
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    @christopher “Which firms/companies do this? I’ve never experienced anything like that. I’ve always been under the impression that a poor review means you’re doing a poor job. I’m also under the impression that the industry itself is shifting towards a more remedial approach to problems (rather than just criticism) when it comes to employee performance.”

    This was your very first post in this thread. I’ve already acknowledged your perspective many times and mentioned that I understand where this perspective is coming from.

    And you questioned “which firms/companies do this?” Well if you’ve paid attention to the ensuing discussion rather than taking offense at a bit of criticism, you may have actually learned a lot from my responses. Which type of firms do this you ask? The public accounting firms that give you specific and specialized training rather than basic generic training because they could care less about your success and professional development.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479624

    Christopher
    Participant

    @brickell I’m reacting to your behavior in response to input you didn’t agree with. Generally in life when you act like a jerk you get btfo.


    AUD - 81, Wiley

    BEC - 77, Wiley

    FAR - 76, Ninja

    REG - 69, Wiley, 70, Wiley, 88, Wiley/Ninja MCQ

    #1479627

    dankpsu
    Participant

    I’m curious to know what do you think is the best way to train employees and review their performance.

    #1479646

    TommyTheCat
    Participant

    brickell – you seriously have got to be trolling. Right? Please tell me that’s what you are doing, because if you are serious then holy moly….


    AUD - 7/8/2017
    BEC - 89
    FAR - november 2017
    REG - 97
    #1479654
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    @christopher Ok well sorry if you feel I was being a jerk. I don’t consider any of my posts have jerk-intent, but rather they are simply objective and straight forward.

    @dankpsu Some employees are more emotional and good cheerleaders for emotional support, some employees are more technical and good at working up the files. Some are better at being a figurative leader and managing a group of people, others are good at dealing with clients, and others are exceedingly good at it all.

    @tommythecat Not trolling

    At the firms I’ve worked for in the past, each of these people would receive specialized training, some more than the others. And it seems apparent to me that some are expected to be accountants forever while others are trained in a way to develop leadership traits more suitable for Partner or director/CFO roles.

    As I posted earlier, it seems reasonable to me that some employees may receive poor performance reviews because they are being assessed more harshly to develop better leadership traits. This is a common training technique in the military and sports teams as well. One of the personality assessments I’ve taken in the past was the Predictive Index, which the employer mentioned is used in the military as well, so I don’t think my perspective is unreasonable at all. It is confusing though that others seem to be so adamant that what I have been saying is delusional when it’s not.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479657

    dankpsu
    Participant

    Op, I agree everyone responds differently to training. I wonder how you feel about how you are being trained and if you feel you are being set up for success. From your pesimistic view on employment and development, I would think it’s not going well. If that’s the case, you should certainly pursue other opportunities.

    #1479660

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    @ Brickell

    “Receiving criticism does not mean “poor review” though.” “In the best learning environments, perhaps it does.”
    What makes you an expert on learning environments?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, because you obviously didn’t read any of my responses, your premise is that “Criticism = Poor Performance”? If this is true you are dead wrong and there is no evidence supporting that premise. As I said previously, no one is perfect, therefore everyone will receive some kind of Criticism BUT just because you receive Criticism does NOT mean you work poorly. If you personally equate these two things you need to rethink your perspective on this issue.

    #1479663

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    “And it seems apparent to me that some are expected to be accountants forever while others are trained in a way to develop leadership traits more suitable for Partner or director/CFO roles.”

    It is comments like the one above that make you seem like a fucking asshole, to be blunt. What is wrong with someone being an accountant forever? When did being a Leader become equivalent to success?

    #1479669
    BrickellCPA
    BrickellCPA
    Participant

    @dankpsu I don’t know how to answer that. I feel I have received excellent training and experience and have had the opportunity to work on clients in several different industries and meet all kinds of people. I really can’t assess what to think because I am not exactly clear where other people are at in their accounting careers and what kind of training they receive. I come to this message board to ask career related questions and it seems like everyone works in an entitled environment where special treatment is the norm rather than the exception. I think that entitled mentality is the attitude most people who get stuck in their careers carry or can’t make the transition into higher level positions.

    @nyscpa That is your perspective. Sorry you feel that way. I appreciate your input though, really.


    Review material: 100% NINJA

    AUD - Passed 12/8/16
    BEC - Passed 1/25/17
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    #1479675

    NYSCPA
    Participant

    @Brickell

    What part of my question is “My perspective” I am asking you to clarify your position and you have a bullshit response while addressing someone else’s question with “it seems like everyone works in an entitled environment where special treatment is the norm rather than the exception” What special treatment does anyone responding receive?

    You are now adding no value to this discussion.

    #1479679

    jdn9201
    Participant

    I’ve worked in industry for 10 years in tax. I’ve never received a poor performance review, but I have received reviews that were less than what I expected. Those few instances were the result of office politics and red-tape – I once had a boss who admitted that his higher rating for me was shot down by his boss, who rarely observed my work. I suspect that it’s rare that firms give bad performance reviews just for the heck of it. The review process can be awkward for both sides (manager and staff), and I suspect managers are just as hesitant to give criticism as some employees are at receiving it. If someone receives a poor review without any justification, really the only response is to go find another job. There’s no sense fighting it because it just makes you look bad.
    I also think context is important. Being able to take constructive criticism and make improvements is underrated. I’ve even sought it out in times throughout the year besides my review so that I can learn. It’s pretty hard to learn how to do your job better if all your boss does is pat you on the back and tell you how awesome you are. On the other hand, the process certainly isn’t perfect and politics can play a role. Ratings can get knocked down to limit raises/bonuses. I’ve even had evaluations by people who rarely if ever observe my work. You have to strike a balance between appreciating constructive criticism that you get, and letting the rest of it go in one ear and out the other.

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