[throw_away]

I was brought on as an experienced hire, worked at a small firm for a year and transitioned into big 4 for about 10 months now. Classified as a first year associate and was put on a pretty large public (SEC) client, and it was the first year we had this client, so no strong PY workpapers to follow.

It was definitely a whirlwind and when push comes to shove, we did what we had to, to get the job done. A part of me knows I deserved a below average rating for example: things weren’t clicking right away over simple audit areas; I was spinning my wheels too much on certain areas and documentation/communication weren’t strong enough.

Overall my Manager/Sr. Manager liked my good attitude and my people’s skills (client interactions) and they say they believe I can be successful, but gave me some things I need to change. Such as prioritization, communication of when things go wrong/don’t work, technical knowledge, etc…

They suggested that I re-arrange my schedule to fit in new/different clients to get to see different aspects and find other associates to model myself after. Note: That my current team, as a whole, got along very well, it’s just we all had our strengths and weaknesses. Sadly our weaknesses together synergistically made it a lot worse when it came to efficiencies, bottom line is they just weren’t good teachers and I wasn’t communicating my struggle enough to the managers.

Now my question to you reddit is: Is this whole effort still salvageable? My goal is still to reach senior in a two years…Can I obtain this goal still? Has anyone ever been in the below average category before? Any advice?

[Anonymous]

I dont know how its like in the states, but after a couple of months of feedback … there would be promotions … and if you were a year 1 associate you will be a year 2 associate … unless they dont promote you !

I really hope you get your promotion … and Hook me up with HR ! 😛 .

[throw_away]

Thanks for the response:

Based on how the structure goes it's:

First Year —> Second Year: there is really no promotion here, just a recognition that you are second year associate

Second Year —> Senior: This is where the actual promotion is noted.

and GL to you on getting in…honestly I graduated b/t 2009-2010 and those were some tough years getting into big 4…alot of attempts and just constant vigilance really pushed me (kinda like passing the exam)

[Anonymous]

I have been there.

You have to work as an animal your second year and it all depends on who

you work for and if they like you.

Also, is any job is over budget the senior on the job needs to put in on someone and

from what you describe that is the exact language they use on the review of the one person or a few

they can get away with. They will give good reviews for the people they like. It is all about the meeting the

budget at the senior/ manager level.

I did make it to senior but it took a lot of hours which I did not bill and they liked that although they are not

supposed to do that. But since the manager made the budget they did not care how.

[throw_away]

Man that is tough to swallow, being new to the field, but I knew deep down inside as the review went along that someone had to take the fall. So for all the encouraging words of “you can still do it”, but we are going to slap you with the rating because we need to hit someone.

Overall the team performed poorly, manager and senior manager stretched b/t 2-3 jobs, 2 seniors that were also new to the client, I communicated that I needed help in areas, but we were all struggling.

Well this is a lesson for all this. An this paints the classic world the big 4 bureaucracy is known for.

So I want to stick with this client, but it seems they want me to try a different area, to get a new look/feel on what else is out there, maybe a smaller client w/ less technical issues.

Its funny, the senior manager said: “Hey, I can't name names, but I had an associate that was in a similar position. And he worked his a** off the second year and received an Top Tier review by the end of his second year and made it to senior in the right amount of time. You can still do it and I want to help get you there.”

Well I know what I need to do and it will be about execution…I wish I could stay on the client, but I can't imagine anything changing aggressively if i'll be working with the same team. My fear is I will be put on the (super intense) jobs that are run poorly and will be in the same position again. The unknown is scary feeling, but being comfortable can be misleading.

[throw_away]

Bump for a new day.

[Anonymous]

Do not feel bad, it is a classic example of public accounting:

team performed poorly, manager/senior manager not having time to focus on the client and

direct the staff properly, and the seniors are new on that client.

My last busy season I was a manager.

We had review meetings with the partners.

If a job did not go well, as a manager you can not say I did a bad job directing the staff and I can not

handle 2-3 clients at a time with all new seniors. That will mean that the manager with get a

bad review and possibly be out of a job.

So you have to say, the team could have done much better but this person was bad, and that how they pick

people to get a bad review. Actually the job went bad because of the manager, you had nothing to do with

that, they needed to show you what to do or communicate to the partner that they can not focus on 3 clients.

Learn how to navigate the system and get your experience and do not take it personally.

[kandisjoy]

Don't feel bad, that's just public accounting. One of the main reasons I was glad to get out of public accounting!

Your reviews depend more on if the manager likes you than if you do good work. Doing a good job will help, but you can do a good job and get an awful review if your manager has a personality conflict with you. They'll find one small thing that you messed up on and turn it into a huge issue. My advice in order of importance… 1) kiss butt, 2) work extra hours off the clock (make sure you stay later than most in the office), and 3) work hard. Kind of sad that kissing butt is the most important, but that's what you get when you work in public accounting… not just Big 4 either – I worked at a regional firm that was the same way.

FAR: 71, 77
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AUD: 62, 78
REG: 71, 68, 85

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[senbi575]

Standard of Field work #1 – audit must be properly supervised. It is sad that big firms pass the buck to the staff level that have maybe 2 years, at best, of work experience which is nothing compared to the work experience of the managers and partners, but since the staff has no one to shift the blame to, they absorb it. That is part of the firm and you just have to learn from your mistakes, with that said I understand you want to make senior in 2 years, however I think the “up or out” mentality of public accounting firms is also not healthy and in my opinion and is one of the top five reasons for the high attrition rate. In the grand scheme of your career, one extra year as a staff is not going to set you back. You should focus on improving yourself and your skill sets and the title/promotion will follow. I think it is worse to be a senior that still doesn't understand the audit objectives for testing A/R, I equate it to a black belt that gets his butt handed to him by the brown belts because he was given his black belt too soon. Having the title without the skill set will hurt your career in and out of the firm.

[throw_away]

Thanks for the encouragement. I guess things happen for a reason and it was just one engagement…I will see how my overall review goes…

[songhee7]

throw_away, I totally feel for you.

When I first started as an auditor in public accounting, I was very surprised and disappointed to know that what partners care the most is efficiency and not effectiveness or work ethics. And all you have to do is to prepare a good looking working paper, which sounds like you performed all the necessary procedures noting no problems.

I followed the same audit procedures and same test work as prior year and many times ended up finding many discrepancies to document and spend time on. But prior work paper is always a clean cut and perfect like “we traced A to B, C to D noting no exceptions”. I even caught other auditor (3 years experience)'s revenue recognition memo and revenue test work paper, which turned out to be wrong during my field work.

I was trying to be ethical and diligent when it comes to test work but I was told I needed to working on the efficiency. And my manager always gave me a hard time saying that this should have taken only certain number of hours. Many times there is no way you can finish those test work in such number of hours if you performed all the necessary procedures.

I still don't know how I can balance efficiency and quality work to make partners happy and also to feel good about myself.

Perhaps, I should be less ethical and less diligent to get a better review and survive in public accounting.

[throw_away]

Yeah, I can definitely understand that situation.

At this point all I can do is wait for my year end review and hopefully I can get the rating I deserve and not let this one engagement slip up my whole year.

Stay tuned…

[See Pee A]

I wouldn't sweat a not so stellar rating. I also work in Big 4 in the Southeast US, and know of a few people who did not get promoted to senior after their second year. In my eyes, they didn't get fired, so unless you seem to be on the chopping block, there's no need to worry. At least this is a baseline, and you can work at it. Getting a good review is a function of politics, knowing your s***, and opportunity.

1 – Politics – Your second year, senior, and manager must like working with you and must see good things not only in your work but also just your general attitude, mannerisms, etc. This is highly subjective and sometimes you can try everything right and still not get ahead here. Do your best, and be sure to learn to “play the game”. Talk the talk, so to speak. You need to get along with your team and the client.

2 – Know your s*** – Improve, improve, improve. You may get a hundred review notes on your first workpaper. If you continually get the same old review notes and never seem to get it, you will get hurt on your review with this. Try hard, look through your documentation carefully, and note your weak areas so one by one you can improve on them. Overnight improvement is not feasible nor expected, but continual improvement is required. You should not be making the same mistakes over and over, since this shows you don't learn from your mistakes. Of course, sometimes you will just miss a silly thing here or there, but don't let that become a trademark.

3 – Opportunity – You don't always have the opportunity for high ratings. Naturally, you should always have the chance for a standard or “3” rating or “C” rating (whatever your firm uses). Getting above average is not just a function of knowing what you're doing, but also being on a client where you are doing more than ticking, tying, and filing widgets… sorry, tax schedules.

Unless you did horrible, and are on deck for the firing squad, you don't need to worry. Just work at it. Nearly everyone will get their raises, promoted and so on. Not every senior, manager, or sr. manager above you was a star, so don't think only the top 10% move ahead. Take time to talk with your manager or performance team to put it out there, “Hey, I know I didn't do so hot on my last review, but I really would like to make a change. Can you help me identify some good places to start and define some ways for me to improve?” Sounds like bs, but it shows you're actually taking ownership of yourself and your mistakes (or even their mistakes/unfair assessments). Keep it up and don't feel that if you're not first that you must be last.

BEC 86 (08/30/11)
FAR 84 (10/13/11)
REG 88 (11/08/11)
AUD 86 (11/29/11)

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[Anonymous]

Throw-away – If they gave you a bad review, that is their way of documenting that you will not be promoted. If you really want to be a Senior, you need to keep at it, and try to grow, but you might just have to give this place a big farewell in one year as someone else will want you as a Senior.

Since this is Big 4, that is good news. Big 4 is a stamp of approval on your resume. Even though Big 4 experience as a staff really means that you only know a small piece of the puzzle, Big Corps are stupid enough to believe that you are some SEC Filing expert or know SOX by heart.

[Author]

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