[cantpassagain1]

Hey guys, I am a relatively recent grad (2016 undergrad, 2017 grad) from a o.k. college. I began my career in big four after graduation in a small tax group. It was not challenging at all so I left after 5 months for a mid tier firm in audit. I really love it. Audit is great and I love looking at financials.

However, academia is where my heart is at. Ever since I got out of school I have felt like there is a piece of me missing. To be quite honest, I am not sure how great I am at working in the real world. Keeping within budgeted hours, selling myself to partners and managers to get on engagements, and fitting into company cultures (often too proud to admit that, but I must be honest) are incredibly difficult for me.

With all of that being said, I graduated the top of my class in college, passed (84,86,89,92) the CPA exam in a total of four months and often tutored other classmates and those in lower level classes while in school.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but I really dont see myself making it long in public accounting (maybe industry a tad longer) let alone being successful (making senior manager/partner/CFO ect). However, I am practical about life. I realize going back to school for my PHD is going to be an incredible financial burden on me as I already have my loans from undergrad and grad school. I just dont know what to do. I want to get back to what I am good at.

With all of that being said. What are your complete and unfiltered thoughts? Can someone get into academia without much experience at all? Have you ever heard of someone pursuing this career path? If so, what is their story?

[aaronmo]

From what I've seen, experience is a detriment to academia 😉

There was a link Jeff posted for CPA to academic transitions. I think you should look into it…they had something on the AICPA page. There was also money they were offering because, apparently, there's an accounting prof shortage. I looked into it, I guess because I forgot how much I hate academia in some ways, and was turned off. You might not be. The guy i spoke with…at Drexel…was an egomaniac schmuck IMO. Non-CPA who told me the CPA wasn't that valuable in his mind…a masters counted more to him. And he teaches accounting.

Most of the programs I spoke with had stipends and deals…essentially you serve as a slave to a prof during the program and they pay you a pittance.

I think it sounds like you know what you want, you may have the grades for it and you should see what they say. I love the idea of teaching accounting…I just hate the reality of academic personas.

AUD - 96
BEC - 84
FAR - 89
REG - 86

Aaron and always remember, YMMV

I profit from your CPE frustration. You're welcome.

[Anthony]

Do you want to do research? Because that what you are signing up for when you get a PhD. You aren't there just to teach, you need to produce research papers.

If you have senior experience under your belt, you might be able to become an adjunct professor at some local community college and work your way up through there.

AUD - 82
BEC - 80
FAR - 81
REG - 82

FAR - 74 first attempt

[aaronmo]

The community college option sounds awfully attractive IMO.

My real dream…some day…is to have some sort of non-profit where I can teach kids bookkeeping/accounting basics. Just the basics of financial literacy that I never learned until I was in my 30s.

AUD - 96
BEC - 84
FAR - 89
REG - 86

Aaron and always remember, YMMV

I profit from your CPE frustration. You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

@aaronmo ,

I'm in school right now, and all of the professors I've had, or that are on faculty have earned their CPA license, along with other certifications. Most are also PHDs, although there are a few adjunct with only a Master's. I had one full-time professor who only had an MBA, but he was also a CPA, CFM, CMA and ChFC.

In addition, the CPA exam is talked about in all classes as an integral aspect of a good accounting career, and I've had a few classes that used CPA material (online quizzes, etc) as part of the curriculum.

I'm sure there are some teachers out there like the one you mentioned, but I have to say my experience hasn't been like that at all.

Also, I think accounting is viewed more as a science than as a straight business or liberal arts discipline. Really, the logical progression for an academic career in the sciences is undergrad to PHD. I think a master's in science is usually a consolation prize for people who can't hack the PHd or lose interest. The master's in tax is considered more helpful to a career in tax obviously, but the straight accounting master's seems to be all about the 150. I think a finance master's is probably more of a gray area, as the math in advanced finance can get pretty insane. Anyway, I think the point is that an master's in accounting doesn't carry nearly as much weight as the CPA.

However, for anyone transitioning from another career without an undergrad degree in accounting (or at least one that is business heavy), the accounting master's degree is pretty important for resume purposes.

Anyway, it seems like the guy you talked to wasn't the best example of the typical accounting teacher, and what he says doesn't jive with everything I have learned about the profession, so maybe you shouldn't write off academia completely.

[aaronmo]

Ben – I really like your post and am grateful that you made it. I guess it was something where it reminded me of some previous, bad, experiences. I might have, as you suggest, taken too much from it. Frankly it really annoyed me.

I agree with what you said across the board. I'm a non-accounting major, and took my 36 at community colleges. I regret not going the masters route and would STRONGLY encourage anyone in that situation putting in the extra time/money. It definitely hurt my resume and attractiveness to firms. Actually, even with the CPA, I still think it hurts…and I still end up having to explain it. Anything you have to explain is, IMO, bad for places looking for round pegs.

Right now I'm kicking around an MBA or the Masters in Tax. 100% agree that the only reason to get a MACC is the extra credits, or if you were non-accounting. I think an MBA adds more value if you are, or will be a CPA, since it's a different arrow in your quiver. The Masters of Tax is a real program…but obviously more narrow. Macc is, according to everyone I've spoken with, essentially credit bearing CPA prep.

AUD - 96
BEC - 84
FAR - 89
REG - 86

Aaron and always remember, YMMV

I profit from your CPE frustration. You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

Also, in case it wasn't clear, I think I had only one professor with less than ten years experience working in a combination of public accounting and industry. However, she did five years at a Big-4 after undergrad, got her CPA, got promoted to manager and then jumped into a PHD program, so nothing to sneeze at there…

[Skynet]

Make sure you don't get caught having an affair with one of your students.

The excuse of saying you're only helping her how to create a “Partneship” does't fly when your pants are down. Trust me.😁

AUD - 90
BEC - 78
FAR - 84
REG - 87

World Domination Plan

Phase I : Pass CPA Exams - Complete
Phase II : Megan Fox - In Progress
Phase III : Megan Fox & Scarlett Johansson Lingerie Pillow Fight
Phase IV : Form the new Charlie's Angels with Megan Fox, Scarlett Johansson, & Gal Gadot
Phase V : TBD

BEC : 78
REG : 87
FAR : 84
AUD : 90

World Domination Plan

Phase I : Pass CPA Exams - Complete
Phase II : Megan Fox - Initiated
Phase III : Bring back 8-Tracks
Phase IV : Megan Fox & Scarlett Johansson Lingerie Pillow Fight
Phase V : TBA

[Anonymous]

@aaronmo ,

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of it comes down to having something academic related to accounting the firm can put in your bio if they need to….

I've basically structured my MSA classes to line up with my CPA prep, and it's been pretty helpful, but it would be redundant if I already had an accounting degree of some kind and the 150, and was working in accounting.

[cantpassagain1]

@aaronmo Thats interesting you say that. I could definitely see there being some stuck up professors in academia. The pressure to publish research and everything else they do for endowments must feel overwhelming to some people. Completely disagree with his statement on CPA not being valuable in academia or real world. This is what students pursue, as a professor adding value to their careers, I feel like you have got to be able to help them in this area.

Ive looked at a few of the programs in the south (from NC), and all of the ones I looked at offer fellowships. Which, like mentioned, is a small stipend plus tuition waiver. For the most part, this is enough for rent and PB&J's.

I hope I can get in to a program. My average GPA in undergrad was a 3.56 overall, ~3.75 concentration, and finished with a 3.7 in grad school. Do you guys think this will be enough? I understand it is a mix of experience and grades at the PHD level but as mentioned, my experience is slim.

Anybody know of someone that actually did a PHD program? What have they said about it?

[aaronmo]

From reading what I see as very cogent advice from Ben, and combining that with my experience…I think the conclusion is that the programs are likely to be different…and have their own preferences. I'd start poking at least a few and seeing if you might be a fit. If not…figure out what it would take and if you want to make that effort.

I have a -checkered – academic background with highs and lows. One of the schools I spent time at was a very small – 500 people – elite liberal arts school. True academia. I rapidly learned to detest it while realizing that, while reasonably bright, I'm not really an academic or intellectual. That experience has probably colored my perceptions and reactions…and I think Ben was right. You have to check a bunch of programs and see what fits.

AUD - 96
BEC - 84
FAR - 89
REG - 86

Aaron and always remember, YMMV

I profit from your CPE frustration. You're welcome.

[cantpassagain1]

So I looked into a lot of programs and it seems to be quite the process in applying and getting into most all programs.

Anyone think I am giving up on accounting by trying to get into academia?

[Anonymous]

> “Anyone think I am giving up on accounting by trying to get into academia?”

Do YOU think you're giving up on accounting by trying to get into academia? That's what's gonna be important. Nevermind what anyone else thinks!

[Anonymous]

I wrote a much longer reply, but for some reason it got deleted after I went back and edited it. In a nutshell – being an accounting instructor is something you can definitely do in addition to working in the industry. But, without a PhD, you will not earn much money teaching. One of my old accounting instructors works at SIX (6) different schools. He doesn't teach at all of the schools, all of the time. But needless to say, he is very busy, and not earning as much money as he would have been earning if he'd just taught at night and worked in the industry by day.
And…he's no great shakes as an instructor. I have another friend who teaches Accounting 1 (the super basics – “what is a balance sheet?”) at a couple different schools. But by day, he's a government auditor. Also not a great instructor, but he does not need the money he earns from teaching, he teaches because it's his way of giving back to the community I guess.

BTW if you're in a PhD program, you shouldn't have to pay for it, I don't think?? Everyone I've known from my own long academic career, who got an MS or PhD, was in a graduate assistanceship program and they paid no tuition money. But, these people got the grad degrees in math or chemistry or biochemistry, not accounting. Maybe it's different for accounting/business.
Not sure. You said above that you finished graduate school after only one year. How did you do that and what kind of program was it?? Never heard of anybody doing grad school in only a year…or was it post-bacc that you did?? Master's programs are minimum 2 years and PhD is minimum 3 years (often 5 years.)

[aaronmo]

Not sure where you got masters programs being a minimum of 2 years…there are many that are 1. Many full time MBAs are 1. Hell – a lot of schools offer programs that are “accelerated” where you get your bachelors and masters after 4 years.

As far as whether you're dodging…I'll tell you something I've learned after a few years:

Everyone is nuts in their way. You'll regret choices. You'll have doubts. You'll also get positives. Decisions like this seem overwhelming, and so important…but you'll learn to live with the compromise, whichever compromise, quickly. For most people, there's not just ONE PERFECT THING that you are DESTINED to do. You do what you end up in, and you make the best of it. Every decision has compromises…which ones are most appealing to you today?

The stones said it best…you can't always get what you want…but if you try sometimes, you'll find…you get what you need.

AUD - 96
BEC - 84
FAR - 89
REG - 86

Aaron and always remember, YMMV

I profit from your CPE frustration. You're welcome.

[Recked]

Here's a link to the thread on AICPA PhD program that A-A-Ron referenced above.
It might be helpful for you.
Need to have passed the CPA, and GMAT above 650.
They have a list of participating schools on the website. See if any are close to you, or any that interest where you might want to live.

AICPA Accounting Doctoral Scholars ADS Program

Loves the stones quote, but I am afraid your keystrokes are wasted on the youth…

Memento Mori - Kingston NY CPA & EA (SUNY Albany 2002)

FAR-93 11/9/17 (10wks, 250 hrs, Roger 1800+ MCQs, Gleim TB 600+MCQs, SIMs)
AUD-88 12/7/17 (3 wks, 85 hrs, Roger 1000 MCQs no SIMs hail mary)
REG-96 1/18/18 (6 wks, 110 hrs, 1400 MCQs, no SIMs)
BEC-91 2/16/18 (4wks, 90 hrs, 1240 MCQs)

[Author]

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