[CPA2BEE]

Hello Everyone,

So I passed the CPA exam a few months ago and should be issued a CA license number any day now. Now that the extension deadline is over my boss just informed me that we are going to meet next week to discuss the raise I will receive and my future with the firm. I know what I want as my salary but fear I will not get it. Here is a little background about my situation to give you some basis for your inputs:

I’m 26 years old, have worked in public accounting for 3 years in Southern California, have a masters equivalent and soon to be a licensed CPA. I have worked for 2 different firms thus far in my career – one for about a year and my current firm for about 2 years (3 years total). We are a small firm and the partner doesn’t do the traditional promoting to new titles that you see at other firms (staff, senior, manager, etc). It is just the partners and a handful of staff beneath them with all different experience levels and skill sets. I am the only one currently on the staff with CPA credentials. The partner I work under has always praised me for my work and often tells me how well I am doing, mentioning a few times over the last few months that I am at senior level and performing senior work. He has also mentioned several times that he is soon going to increase my billable rate once I get my CPA license.

I don’t know what salary he is going to bump me to but I am anticipating somewhere around 65k-70k. I feel that I should be paid north of 75k, given my education/experience/qualifications in relation to what I am seeing on the market and my peers at other firms. I’ve never really spoken up when I’ve received raises or promotions if I thought I should be paid more money, and for the first time I feel like I should have some leverage to say something and speak up if I’m feeling shorted.

So my question to you guys is this: how do I go about countering what my boss offers me if I feel I should be paid more? Any other SoCal people out there who can gauge what I should ask for? I have the argument of what my qualifications translate into the market salary-wise, I want to offer to take on more work, etc. One thing I’m not sure if I should bring up is that just by having a LinkedIn profile, I often get messages from recruiters sending me job postings for senior positions (often Corporate jobs) that pay 80k-100k. Again, we are a public firm and a lot of these are private jobs so I don’t know if that is a valid argument.

Any and all feedback is appreciated, sorry for the long-winded post.

CA CPA - est. Dec 2016

FAR - 80
AUD - 82
BEC - 80
REG - 85

ETHICS - 90
EXPERIENCE - COMPLETE
Application for California license mailed 8/4/2016

[Accountant183748]

I'm in a similar situation as you – I work in a small firm just partners and staff of various levels. I will be in this situation in a few months after I finish the class I need to apply for my license. I have only been at my firm for 10 months though and before that I had 3 years of financial reporting experience.

From what I've heard from others, it will be difficult for the partner to justify the big pay raise if you will continue doing the same work you are doing now. I think in order to get the pay raise you want, you will either have to be given additional tasks that you aren't currently doing or you might have to look elsewhere at a different firm. I know most of my big raises have come from moving to another company.

[ruggercpa2b]

Private companies are always going to be paying more so you won't be able to use what they are paying as your argument for wanting more pay. With accounting firms it's really going to come down to the size of the firm. Based on posts I have seen on this forum people that work in smaller firms seem to make a little less. As the person above stated what are you bringing to the table and the work you are doing that is going to justify the raise you are asking for. You willl have to sit down and really think about what value you bring to convince him. He is going to raise your billable rate because you are now a CPA and he will expect clients to pay more but that doesn't mean he is going to take away from his profits to pay you more. Do you have friends that work at similar type firms with the same experience to see how much they are making so you have an idea of what to ask for?

When I left the Big 4 for private I got an 18% raise which actually put me in line with some of my peers that had worked in industry since we graduated college. For most of the time that I was in public I was always making way less than they were

AUD - NINJA in Training
BEC - NINJA in Training
FAR - NINJA in Training
REG - NINJA in Training

AUD - 1/6/18
FAR - TBD
REG - TBD
BEC - TBD

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[CPA2BEE]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured comparing to private firms was not a reasonable route to take because it is apples and oranges. And yes, I do have friends who were recently licensed with about the same amount of experience as me and they are in the pay range that I am looking for. However they are at bigger firms so that is something to consider. I feel like nobody here really sells the business, I am thinking of proposing to him that maybe I join a networking group or something and find ways to pull in more clients for us.

CA CPA - est. Dec 2016

FAR - 80
AUD - 82
BEC - 80
REG - 85

ETHICS - 90
EXPERIENCE - COMPLETE
Application for California license mailed 8/4/2016

[Anonymous]

“have a masters equivalent” – what does this mean? Just that you have 150 credits, or that you have 30 graduate credits but they don't specifically meet the requirements for a specific Master's degree?

[CPA2BEE]

@Lilla I have more than 150 units. Perhaps “further education” is more appropriate than “masters equivalent” since my extended education was not part of an actual masters program. Although if you compared my transcripts to those of a MAcc graduate you'd find it very comparable, or maybe even “equivalent”. But I see you have a MBA in your signature, so the technicalities of the title a masters and apparently its equivalents must be protected 😉

CA CPA - est. Dec 2016

FAR - 80
AUD - 82
BEC - 80
REG - 85

ETHICS - 90
EXPERIENCE - COMPLETE
Application for California license mailed 8/4/2016

[Anonymous]

lol MBA is just started – 1 class down, 10 to go. 😛 However, the reason I asked is because my 150 credits (30 extra undergrad) never meant anything special to employers (thought it was required to be a CPA). MBA is mostly a personal goal which I think will be advantageous career-wise, but I'm not a “Master's are the golden key for everyone!!!” person or anything like that. I landed my dream job without it and won't get a raise or anything when I finish it; only reason career-wise to have it would be for future opportunities if I decided to leave this position or if circumstances changed in the future such that I needed to (which given I'm just 26, odds are good that one or the other will happen in the next 40 years!). Anyway, point is, I'm not a Masters-enthusiast, just was curious if you meant you had graduate work, had 150 units, or had extra academic work beyond the CPA requirements, etc. Unfortunately, I'm afraid an employer isn't likely to value the extra undergrad credits much, at least not in what I've seen. 😐 So, I probably wouldn't approach the discussion with manager as “Master's equivalent”, but if you've taken specialized courses that are relevant, you could mention that – like, “Since I've taken 5 tax courses, including 3 in specialized areas of tax, I can provide unique assistance for our tax wing” or something like that.

Honestly I think that independent study can be fully as useful as anything on a transcript, let alone that meets a specific degree, but usually when it comes to salary negotiations, only the official degrees are included. 😐

[CPA2BEE]

I totally get what you are saying. I'm not weighing so much on my education but rather my experience, what I'm bringing and what I can continue to bring to the firm, and what the market would pay for someone with my credentials. Honestly I don't think even if I had a MAcc, MBA, or MST it would have any more positive impact on my pay right now, but rather provide future long-term opportunities – just like you were saying with your MBA.

CA CPA - est. Dec 2016

FAR - 80
AUD - 82
BEC - 80
REG - 85

ETHICS - 90
EXPERIENCE - COMPLETE
Application for California license mailed 8/4/2016

[livealittle]

what do YOU think you are worth?

have you brought in business?
have you found a way to make some processes more efficient, thus saving the firm $?
Are you reviewing others' work?
are you teaching/mentoring/training other staff on processes, procedures, accounting work, etc?

if you are the owners, how much are you willing to pay for your skill set and experience?

as a general rule, you can take an accountant at a CPA firm's billable hourly rate and divide it by 2 to get in the ballpark of what they are paid.

example – billable rate of $110 an hour is paid ~ 55K a year base salary

while I've only worked at 2 CPA firms, 1 about 13 years ago and 1 now, in both cases, this general rule of thumb was true.

BEC - 8/8/16
REG - 66, 77
AUD - 81
FAR - 9/8/16

[Missy]

Do your homework, use the Robert Half salary guide (which has the adjustment for locations)maybe salary.com or glassdoor. Every new CPA (including me a few years back)thinks they're worth 80-100k. In your area that may well be the case, in another area not a chance. Either way you've got more leverage with some stats and figures than just telling them what you think you're worth.

Old timer,  A71'er since 2010.

Finance manager/HR manager

 

 

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Missy]

And Don under any circumstances mention the recruiters lol. They can tell you all day long they've got 80-100k positions you'd be perfect for but as someone with vast job hunting experience-95% never pan out. They have dozens of candidates per position,if they've even got the positions and aren't also cold contacting employers.

Old timer,  A71'er since 2010.

Finance manager/HR manager

 

 

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

I'm a boss, and there are things I appreciate, and things I don't appreciate when someone asks me for a raise. Your boss might be different, but the reasons I don't give raises are: Personal financial issues, brag sheets, and preforming your job duties. I don't want to hear a list of every little thing you've done for the company, because I expect you to do those things – it's part of your job description. I would rather hear you're committed to your job, moving the company forward, and open to new opportunities and receiving feedback when you take those opportunities. I'm looking for partners who can help me get MY job done reliably, accurately, efficiently, and with a sense of positivity.

I also want to see you've done your homework. As a boss, I have to know what the market rate is for your position. If you ask me for a raise, I'm gonna have to redo my homework and benchmark your position and look at the current market rate. I'm not likely to give you a raise if you don't know the market rate for your position, because it shows you have no idea what you're asking for and I wonder what else you have no idea about. Use every resource at your disposal, such as Robert Half (adjusted for your locale), any other local or regional salary surveys you can get your hands on, and any job postings that list a salary or wage. However, you should be careful about this. Your company or your boss probably has a compensation strategy, even if they haven't defined it verbally or in writing. At my company, we feel we have benefits and work/life balance that allow us to pay average and still get quality employees. We're not interested in leading the market in compensation. That means I'm aiming for middle of the road for everything I find when I research. I am not going to pay you the union rate, or the publicly traded company rate you see on indeed or glassdoor, because that's just not what we do or what we are.

And above all, be confident, friendly, and open to an honest conversation. Give me a few comments about why you care about the company so I know you're committed. I want honest, positive, hard-working people who willingly accept feedback and make my life easier. If my market research shows I have some room to give you a raise and you're all those things, I will probably give you raise.

[Anonymous]

@CareBear: “I’m looking for partners who can help me get MY job done…” I think this is key to remember in any employment situation – whether you're looking for a job, looking for promotion, looking for a raise, etc. The manager isn't looking for something to put on a cover story; they're looking for something to help with their job, make their life easier, etc. My view has always been that my job is to be making my boss's job easier; as Controller, that's still my view. I now have more resources at my disposal to do that (people under me as well as myself), but I still see my job as making the jobs above me easier. This attitude helps you prioritize the things that your manager prioritizes. (Of course you have to fulfill your job duties before you can help with theirs, but it's a thought to keep in mind.) If you can help them understand how you will continue to improve their life, that helps them realize that they want to do what it takes to continue to keep you around.

[Anonymous]

I recently went through negotiations at my position at a private company. I'd suggest have a number with an acceptable range both sides thereof. Think of other benefits that your job can offer you that may not hit the company's bottom line but may be of great benefit to you. For myself this included other perks like after making two year I was to get 2 weeks vacation, I got a third. I was only getting 4.5 hour of PTO a month, my rate was bumped to 7 hours per month. I also negotiated the ability to work from home 2-3 days a month. This request was made after I did my homework. When I made the suggestion eyebrows were raise but when I quickly followed up with what my production can be from home it made the request more palatable. Other have mentioned doing your research on your local market. When talking of your achievements don't talk about how really freaking good you are at doing the job you already have. Talk about the things you do above and beyond what your boss assigns you. More importantly, don't just tell them these great things, quantify them by putting a number to the benefit. At my position, I cut the cost of our tax preparation work in half by simply doing a lot of the cleanup internally.

In short:
Know your worth
Prove your worth
Be Flexible

It may happen that taking less money now will allow the company sometime to grow to the point where they can afford to pay you more in the future. Your wage in the market based upon your skill doesn't effect what that firm can afford to pay you. It may come a time in the future where they fiscally can't keep you but I doubt you've reached that ceiling yet.

Hope this helps.

[Vanessachy]

Good luck! I just took an offer from a much bigger firm (65k) and I don't even want to brother to ask for it in my current firm. Small firms has different management structure and I don't see the future here. If you think that the firm can let you grow and be happy there, you should discuss with them regarding that. You should lay out your value in the firm and ask for an acceptable salary. I am in MA, normally with my 2 years of work experience, Masters degree in accountancy and soon to become a CPA, is making about 65,000 (recruiter told me that). CA probably have a different range since it is more expensive there.

Far, 64 82
Reg, 60 86
Aud, 74 82
Bec, 70 81
Done done done! I did it!!!
Licensed CPA in MA, issued October 2016

Far 10/26/2015, 64, 1/4/2016, 82
Reg 7/10/2015, 60, 2/27/2016, 86
Aud, 5/9/2016, 74 (ouch), 7/26/2016, I cannot wait to take this test again
Bec, 6/10/2016, 70,9/8 retake

[CPA2BEE]

Thank you all so much for your responses and advice. I feel like I am ready to discuss this with the managing partner and have made a list of the values I bring to the firm and how to approach it to let him know how I value the firm as well. I am going to do a bit more homework to confirm the pay range I am asking for, and see how it goes! I have a very good relationship with the managing partner, and I feel like I can really voice what I am thinking and feeling with him without being reprimanded. Wish me luck next week!

CA CPA - est. Dec 2016

FAR - 80
AUD - 82
BEC - 80
REG - 85

ETHICS - 90
EXPERIENCE - COMPLETE
Application for California license mailed 8/4/2016

[Author]

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