[thedude]

Hello everyone. I have been trolling this forum for a while and read some prettying interesting advice. I would like to thank you all. My question is what is the big obsession working for a Big 4 and working the crazy hours. In other words, is the work put into it worth it now and in the future?

Aud: 42 (ouch)

All others TBD

[mla1169]

It's a tool like any other. Is very helpful down the road because employers even in industry realize that surviving big 4 shows grit. You can still get from point a to point b without it, but it is a bit harder.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[RIST]

Resume item. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

-Hours are worse

-Chances of Promotion to Partner = 2%

-Same pay as alternatives (if you are a good negotiator with the other firm, otherwise B4 = a bit more)

-Don't learn more since there will be TERRIFYING Monotony at times. Smaller firms = more different tasks

That said, after all the bashing… You would be foolish not to try it if the Big 4 will take you. It might just be a resume item, but it is one SPECTACULAR resume item. Everyone knows your firm, everyone respects your experience, everyone thinks you are tough as nails.

[jopa16]

As far as I know we're paid less than our small firm counterparts at entry level. But there's a lot of perks that help, like free Becker, exam fees covered, phone bill covered. Then like what was said before, great resume builder and the pay rises fairly quickly.

REG 2/26/14 - 90
BEC 4/08/14 - 92
FAR 5/31/14 - 90
AUD 7/09/14 -

[nicole2035]

i think people trick themselves into thinking big 4 has tons of perks. Pretty much people go into it, hate their lives, get paid close to nothing per hour for their salary, quit after 2-3 years just to be a senior accountant in industry and honestly not making significantly more than their non cpa counterparts. People go into it thinking they'll be a CFO, um, yea..probably not happening. I think you have to go into it with an end goal, and so many people are young when they go to the big 4 and they don't know how to stand up for themselves. Any job you have there is a mutual agreement, and the employees obviously get treated like crap. Why work for someone who doesn't trust your experience or treats you as if you have no life outside of work? They literally force people to stay at work, how is that ok? There's enough jobs to go around in industry, and i doubt them working at a firm is gonna put them miles ahead because at the end of the day companies want to work with people they like.

However, I think some obvious perks is the networking and the people you get to meet. They hire in floods so you always get to meet other new graduates, who also will leave after 2-3 years, and from there you will have connections in lot of different industries. I'm not trying down the big 4, because it obviously has perks, but i cannot believe anyone can agree or encourage those employer practices, it's gross. Quit drinking the koolaid, you all sound insane

[Mayo]

“Resume item. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying”

Well, call me a liar :P. Resume item is a big part of it. Especially to the outside world.

However, Big 4 firms gives you experience and skills that are hard to replace. We're talking a great network, ealry responsibility to run a team or a networking group within the firm (diversity/affinity groups), global rotations, free CPE and training, promotions/raises every year, acess to a variety of clients and industries to match your desired career path, global rotations, other service line rotations, opportunity to work on IPOs, access to various Senior execs at your client.

That being said, large regionals (i.e. Grant Thornton, BDO, Mcladrey, etc) all do a good job of competing in many of these aspects. The only difference is that the opportunities are not as numerous. Combine that with the Big 4 name recognition, and the conventional wisdom is to go Big 4 instead of large regional.

So you have the resume factor…plus tons of other factors that will help propel your career. Which is why a job there is sought after. It nasically guarantees a decent career at a minimum. Not all CPA firms can say that. Yes, you can still be incredibly successful without Bog 4. But the risk of not getting the right mix of opportunities and experience is much higher.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[ZCPA2]

GT, Mcgladrey, and BDO aren't regional firms. They're national firms. Important difference.

Anyway, I'm with a national firm, and many of my former colleagues obtained jobs at Fortune 500s without any problems. You'll learn more and be given more responsibility early on with a national or large regional firm over the Big 4. Your technical accounting skills will likely be better since you'll be working with messier clients, and you'll be expected to become comfortable talking to the client's controller and accounting staff very early in your career. This will give you an edge if you can get your foot in the door and obtain an interview (I'm confident that I can out-interview most Big 4 alumni).

Unfortunately, a lot of recruiters go gaga when they see Big 4 on a resume, and they use it as a shortcut. At my university, Big 4 was only guaranteed if you were a BAP officer. My 3.92 cumulative GPA wasn't enough without extracurriculars. I was in my late 20s and had to work, so I couldn't afford the time commitment.

[Mayo]

@ZCPA2,

My mistake. I guess my snobiness/ignorance was showing when I called th “regional” firms.

However, I gotta disagree with your other points. Big 4 still has the advantage. Want smaller clients? Just ask..we got 'em. Private AND Public.

Want messy clients? Just say the word. We got 'em.

Want more access to partners? Go to a smaller office. Want more exposure in a large organization? Go to a smaller office.

This is not a contest; believe me. But what I mentioned above underlies my point: Big 4 has more variety and more volume of opportunities than other firms. It's why the brand is stronger.

Again…not saying we're the cat's pajamas or better at pur jobs than other firms. Just saying that big 4 has more resources. Much more than a national firm can boast. PLUS, the name recognition.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[fuzyfro89]

I agree, Big 4 isn't the end all/be all of your career. If it's available to you, and you don't have a BETTER alternative that you think will help you reach your goal(s), then it's the best/least risky path.

**All else equal, Big 4 > other public experience.**

I started hating going to work when I was still in audit, but I'll admit I had an easy go with getting interviews, and A TON of the people I interviewed with were former Big 4, and also had similar experiences. They knew the bullsh*t I had gone through, but it's a trial of sorts, and a strange sort of camaraderie.

Of course, like everything, there are exceptions. If you want to work in hedge funds, then Rothstein Kass is the big (little) boss. If you want a particular industry/geography/function/etc, then other options are obviously out there. Additionally, if you are smart, network like a pro, and interview well, then the sky is the limit no matter where you start off.

In general, if you want to go the public company route, your chances (overall) are best supported with working in Big 4. Some job postings will specifically say “Big 4 experience preferred”. Can you still get in? Yes, but you'll have to put in more work, get a recommendation, or network like a champ. Again, if you can do those things then you're already ahead of the game so this advice doesn't apply to you.

**final words: Large national firms are close, but not the same. The brand in Big 4 goes further. Of course, outside of that one line on your resume that says Deloitte/EY/PWC/KPMG, the rest is up to you to fill in… so hopefully you did more than show up, regardless of which house you joined

[Anonymous]

I'm a cool kid and I like being in the cool kids club. That's always worth it.

Also, you haven't been “trolling,” you've been lurking.

[GSU-CPA]

Well first i wanna point out that i dont think you know what trolling this forum means lol. That would mean that you have been messing around with the posters and making fake posts that are believed to be true.

To answer your other question its simple really…

Companies out there know that big 4 work you to death and in order to do the work that is necessary for them you have to know your shit. So they know if you stay there 3-4 years you know what you are doing and they will pay you because of the knowledge and they know they will have a hard worker who doesnt mind putting in 60+ hrs on the weekly basis.

REG-77
BEC -Waiting on score May 5th
AUD - May 30
FAR - Q3 depending on if i pass above two in Q2

[Uhartsoccer21]

Looks like most the responders work in big 4 so I will try to give you some perspective. I work at a small CPA firm, 11 employees, of which: 8 CPA's, 6 CFF's, Firm specialized in Forensic accounting, fraud investigations, and some tax compliance/ tax litigation. With that being said, I'm in my mid-20's been here a year and a half and work on fraud investigations and some pretty complex tax issues that I would not get a chance to work on in big 4 without 5-10 years experience. I also have a strong personal relationship with everyone who works here and get to work with the firm president on occasion who has 30+ years experience with the IRS. I did take a pay cut for my starting salary to work here as compared to big 4 and have had to pay for all my CPA prep and testing costs, but I am convinced the first couple years experience is worth way more then starting salary. This may be a very specific example but there are many many attractive options other then big 4, especially if you don't have the personality (robotic :p) to fit the “mold.”

A - 89 10/23/2014
R - 90 2/27/2014
F - 75 5/25/2014
B - 83 8/28/2014

[Anonymous]

@uhart If you worked in Big 4 you'd see there are no robots – just people, the same as you, trying to make a living. Calling us robots is your way of justifying why you don't work there. I could list off a bunch of bullets as to why Big 4 is better than your place, and then you'd counter with why yours is better than a Big 4 or regional. And we'd both be right because different things matter to different people. Everyone has their own personal wants and needs from a place they work. It's not something universal that can be applied to any employee.

If you're happy with your place of employment, great, keep it up. The only “mold” there is to fit is the one you create for yourself because, and you'll learn this as you get older, no one gives a shit about where you work or how awesome it is. =P

[Uhartsoccer21]

@errday, didn't use the word “better” when referred to my place of employment, just gave an example of what else is out there. I understand the pros and cons as well as the differences in culture/ atmosphere, but in order for thedude to understand, surely there should be an example to compare the two. But Notion of working “just to make a living” is exactly what I mean when I say “robotic”, I am just starting in my career and it sounds like thedude is as well, and talking to people who have awesome exciting jobs that they are extremely passionate about I find very inspirational and something to strive towards…. or…. we can all look forward to jobs noone will give a shit about because they won't be awesome, welcome accountants this is our defined future ><.

A - 89 10/23/2014
R - 90 2/27/2014
F - 75 5/25/2014
B - 83 8/28/2014

[itsjustatest]

@errdayimcpa “Calling us robots is your way of justifying why you don't work there”.

No, it is working in public accounting and realizing that the hours worked at big 4 compared to the complexity of procedures performed is nothing short of Robotic. You are a number in their system with little to no value and highly replaceable.

Aka…robot.

AUD - 83
REG - 78
FAR - 69,73,79
BEC - 85

[jopa16]

There's no need to be insulting. I could rip small firm workers if I wanted to, but what kind of person does that?

REG 2/26/14 - 90
BEC 4/08/14 - 92
FAR 5/31/14 - 90
AUD 7/09/14 -

[Author]

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