[B2RAD]

hey hey everyone, happy friday!!!

hope everyone is having a great tax season!

SO question i have to my fellow small firm accountants, how many of you are still doing audits, reviews, tax workpapers, etc by hand on paper with red pencils and in big binders??

I work at a small CPA firm with a full time staff of 7 including myself, 2 partners, in Metro Detroit. I just started out of college this janaury as i didint want to take out debt for a MAC just to get my 150 done fast. Actually want to enjoy my masters classes and get the CPA done first.

I have worked at Plante Moran as an intern over two tax seasons (60 hour weeks the first one in 2013, 75 hour weeks during my second tax season in 2014). Then i worked at Novogradac & Company for a tax season during 2015 and worked about 50 hour weeks. In between i would go to school and work at the auto company Bosch as a business intern to make tuition. Everywhere i worked was all computers, rarely any paper used especially at the firms. everything was done in caseware, engagement, etc. AT my firm we have great tax software and an ehh program Accounting CS for adjusting entries, and to store the TB but i do all my markups by hand on paper workpapers i print from the client or make in excel (rare) lol as you can see i love my excel and computer work.

i dont mind doing things the old school way but i am thinking about my after CPA plans and trying to decide if my firm is way behind the times or on par for a 7 person size firm. i am learning a ton at the small firm level and enjoy the work but not using the computer to our advantage kinda ticks me off some days lol i am also scared that this shows me that the partners are really set in there ways and will have issues trying to adjust in the future.

I am the youngest in the office by a lot at 23 years old and am grateful to have a solid job while i study for the CPA and save up for my MAC.

Thanks for the input. 🙂

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[Anonymous]

I am in the same boat as you, age, education like pretty much everything. ive been told many times by successful people that your 20's should be all about learning so once your job becomes easy and you no longer struggle or learn anything, it is time to find another firm or company or career.

[Anonymous]

When I worked in a small tax and bookkeeping firm (counting myself, was 3 people part of the time I was there and 2 people the other part of the time!), we didn't even have Excel on the computers – we had Lotus 1-2-3. This wasn't that long ago – 2012 – 2013. So, if you get to do some in Excel, you're ahead of where I was! Lotus drove me crazy. >.< My boss got a new computer which came with Excel on it and was trying to find his old Lotus discs so that he could put Lotus on it instead. Made me sad…

My boss at that firm wasn't a CPA, so we didn't do audits. So, not quite the same work being done, but as far as the tax and bookkeeping side, we did use paper. We didn't do it entirely on paper (like we used a bookkeeping software, didn't do manual ledgers), but we would print a trial balance, mark it up manually, then take the manual marks to go make adjusting entries. All of our clients (except one or two) gave us their records on paper, and we worked from that paper. While I was there, I helped my boss start storing client's tax records in scanned files instead of paper files, and that was a huge transition. He still worked from the paper copy, but after he was finished with it, I scanned in the paper copy before we gave it back to the client. He was a little hesitant about the following year when he'd have just a scanned copy for his prior year work papers, and was debating whether to print out the scan copies and then shred them later, or if having a 2nd monitor would allow him to work off of the scans. I was there long enough to walk him through a couple returns that were based off scanned copies of prior year work papers, but I do wonder if he ever got used to using scans, or if he printed them out each year… We didn't get to the point of scanning bookkeeping paperwork, though. That was all still copied and kept in huge binders. Oh well.

My first job in private was all about electronic copies. Our auditors required (or so I was told!) that we have literal hand-marked notations on things, so we had to print them out and mark them, but then we scanned them in and shredded the originals. At the end of the month, none of our work from the month still existed on paper. I loved it.

Now at my current job, we're not as technologically advanced yet. However, for the most part, people are willing to advance, just haven't had someone with the ideas, the knowledge, and the ability to implement changes. So, I've been here a little over a year. I've got the managerial support needed to implement some big changes, just haven't had the time to finalize implementation (actually, management has wanted them done for ages, but the people before me didn't put in the effort to do anything with it…and I've gotten the ball rolling, but haven't been able to finish them yet). There's a lot more changes that need to be made, but what I've found in this mostly-paper-based world is that they're very open to things that will save time and increase efficiency, but that they didn't have someone to make them happen. If I'll be the person to make them happen – and I can demonstrate how they're a value-add – they'll be right behind me.

So, you might be in a spot where your bosses are just set in their ways. Or it could be that they've heard of these technological options, but haven't known how to implement them, or had the time to implement them, or had the ideas of how to see it happen in their company. Maybe you can be the driving force behind change in that company (not yet – after you've earned their respect enough to make changes). Or maybe they like it the way it is, and you'll spend some time there learning thoroughly how things are done (I have to admit doing it on paper is a great learning experience!), and then you'll move on to somewhere else where the style of doing things is more to your liking.

Just remember while you're in the “have to wait before making waves” phase that the knowledge you're gaining right now is invaluable. Doing it on paper is the best way to learn. I don't think it's the best way to work, but it is the best way to learn. So, once you've learned for a few months and earned everyone's trust and respect, then you can suggest one change that you have identified as the one that will have the biggest positive effect for the smallest initial work commitment, and see how it goes over.

[B2RAD]

thats great advice, i did that with Bosch, i was just there killing my work and not getting any advancement as an intern so i left to try Novogradac. i was more bored as an intern in automotive and there because management needed an intern to make germany happy. learned a lot but then it just stopped.

everyone successful tells me i am doing it right, trying out different places, working in different industry's and that the small firm out of school was a great move.

i am learning a lot as well so it is rewarding and i am happy with the choice over another internship in big firm life.

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[B2RAD]

Thanks @Lilla thats great to hear. and i agree to the paper aspect. i am actually understand everything i am doing where at plante and such i was like well i just need to get this done. i understand the flow of adjusting the books better and dont mind it. its just the erasing or you make one change and all your markups change things.

overall i have few issues about the firm and i feel they are set in there ways because the last 6 years there was no jeans on saturday and that finally started this year. and we work strict 8-7 everyday no exceptions so i am happy to work whenever now as a young guy but i hope they see that to adjust with accounting firms of all sizes you have to trust your employees to get there work done in the hours throughout the day whether that 7-6 or 9-8 etc. off season is standard 8-5 lol

from the older people here the turnover with young people is huge, no college grad has stayed for more than a year in the last 5 years lol

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[Anonymous]

Oh I agree that paper is annoying because if you mess it up you almost have to start over. Get a number wrong back 8 calculations ago? Re-do all of them… In Excel, just change the number, and they all update! I've had this debate with a coworker over adding machines vs. Excel, too. If I'm adding up a long row of numbers, I'll use Excel, so if I have a typo I can correct it and not have to re-do the whole 50 numbers. She prefers adding machines cause she's used to them. Adding machines are nice and all, and I'll use them for something quick if I've already logged off my computer, but otherwise, I'd prefer Excel to a calculator. Sorry but I do. haha.

However, learning isn't about the easy route. Which is why I said paper is great for learning, but maybe not as great for working.

As for the hours, accounting is a more traditional field, so I'm not surprised a smaller firm has more traditional hours. I think our generation is more into the idea of a flexible schedule, the concept that if we work 60 hours a week it shouldn't matter when we work those 60 hours, but accounting is traditional so we shouldn't be surprised if the schedules are too. That will change in time, but not overnight. If I could set my own schedule, I'd work 4 long days per week… But for now, my more realistic goal is to someday have a remote job so that even if I have to be accessible certain hours of the day, I don't have to be literally in the office certain hours of the day. 🙂

[B2RAD]

@Lilla sounds like the same battles i have had. i use my adding machine on my desk for little things but big things go to excel for sure and oo i knew the traditional aspect going in and know it will be a slow change. If my biggest issues is the little more traditional aspect for a few years of my life i am doing alright.

the fact i get CPA prep days and that my boss will let me flex for a CPA course i want to take at night and for my MAC is huge for me. that was my main issue is that so many people wouldnt let me have a little bit of night class flex in the summer.

overall i love the work i do and its nice to be a big fish in a small pond.

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[B2RAD]

@Lilla sounds like the same battles i have had. i use my adding machine on my desk for little things but big things go to excel for sure and oo i knew the traditional aspect going in and know it will be a slow change. If my biggest issues is the little more traditional aspect for a few years of my life i am doing alright.

the fact i get CPA prep days and that my boss will let me flex for a CPA course i want to take at night and for my MAC is huge for me. that was my main issue is that so many people wouldnt let me have a little bit of night class flex in the summer.

overall i love the work i do and its nice to be a big fish in a small pond.

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[pg2324]

I work at a small 10 person firm, 2 partners. My direct manager is in his 60s and is very old-school. He will do all of his workpapers on what he calls ‘accounting paper' – I never knew this even existed before I got here, it looks like green graph paper that has one wide ‘cell' on the left side to write descriptions and then a bunch of little ‘cells' in the middle and right side used to write in numbers.

Thankfully, most of our audits are done in Engagement and all of the staff auditors do their work in Excel to create workpapers.

However, we DO use paper workpapers w/ binders exclusively for one of our audit clients and it is a HUGE pain since this is our biggest audit client by far, with over $100M in revenues. So every time we visit the client for about 2 months of the year, we have to drag 6 binders from PY and another 6 binders for CY back and forth (along with laptops and other supplies).

When I first got this job, I was extremely excited to get my foot in the door in public since I had gone into private right out of college. But I became very demoralized soon after I began here due to the prevalence of old-school methods my manager employs. Sometimes he will do a workpaper on paper for an audit I am working on and I will just recreate it in excel so that in future years we can do it electronically (aka efficiently).

[Anonymous]

Hahaha. I'd almost forgotten about the green “accounting paper”! We have some in the closet at my current job (in private), but I haven't used it since I left my small-firm public job. Oh, the memories… I did see our auditors – or the firm owner at least – with some of it on his desk last year when they were here doing the audit.

Just think – I'll bet B4 auditors don't get to learn about “accounting paper” from their partners! haha!

[EuroAddict]

Trying to teach old dogs new tricks. I am at a small firm (1 owner, 3 of us do taxes, 2 do payroll, 1 fresh face college grad doing whatever he can). All of us are new to the office as of 2015 except for one payroll lady who has been there 10 years. 2015 was just a crazy turnover year for the office.

We previously only had one scanner so you would have to get up and walk over to it to scan docs and then they would just be put into a clients folder in no order. In October we convinced him to purchase scanners for everyones desk (as clients send tax docs in we scan and shred). We also now document via PDF or whatever to make it easier for the owner to review our tax work.

The owner LOVES working with paper, as do most older accountants. But he is really liking the change to electronic only and has really embraced it. The older woman who does payroll for our clients is having a harder time. It's tough to change when you have done the same process for 10 years and now all of a sudden it's different.

-----------------------------
BEC - 77, 03/2015 (first try)
FAR - 79, 05/2015 (second try)
REG - 83, 12/2015 (first try)
AUD - 84, 03/2015 (first try)

I got 99 problems but the CPA ain't one.

[B2RAD]

ooo my partners only accept notes and such on green paper so i know all about that! lol the woman partner (wife) wants to go more electric but the male partner (husband) loves his paper binders. i have been doing a lot of little things in excel so i can just roll it forward next year for clients.

its all a process. i think if they saw how awesome a caseware or engagement is for sign offs and such they would like it but all these people been doing things the same way for over 30 years lol the one woman in our firm who does payroll and other accounting services hates change. we changed to accounting CS from creative solutions and she is flipping out. me i am like these look 90% the same lol but just shows how if you can be flexibility in the workplace, you are loved cuz i just go with it. ooo we are changing software, okay send me to the training and lets rock it out 🙂

i love learning all these techniques as it makes using software so much easier knowing what you want the software to give you. but teaching people to use software is the hard part but will come with time. our storage room cant handle much more paper binders from PY aahahaha

Brad

AUD - 69 (1/6/16) 69 (10-4-15)
FAR - Spring 2016
BEC - 73 (11-23-15) Retake plan Spring 2016
REG - Summer 2016

[Tncincy]

I am not on cpa status yet….but I am absolutely old school guilty. Yes, I do the taxes on the computer, but when I am compiling because my bookkeeping clients do not have a system, I find my self doing most of the work on paper then converting it to give the printed financial statements. I have the scanners, and I can convert to pdf, but since I learned accounting old school, I feel like something is missing. i don't have facebook or a website for my business, I don't see where I have the time to manage these social media sites. I guess it's time to turn from a dinosaur to a princess.
I am currently looking for a good software other than quickbooks
Any suggestions.

It begins with a 75
Been here too long as a cheerleader.....time to pass

It begins with a 75
Been here too long as a cheerleader....ready to pass

[Vanessachy]

I am in a small firm, 14 people. We use engagement, but sometimes I do print paper and mark on them

Far, 64 82
Reg, 60 86
Aud, 74 82
Bec, 70 81
Done done done! I did it!!!
Licensed CPA in MA, issued October 2016

Far 10/26/2015, 64, 1/4/2016, 82
Reg 7/10/2015, 60, 2/27/2016, 86
Aud, 5/9/2016, 74 (ouch), 7/26/2016, I cannot wait to take this test again
Bec, 6/10/2016, 70,9/8 retake

[Author]

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